D&D Movie/TV D&D Movie Hit or Flop?

[nevin]

budget was 150 million. As of May 10th it had grossed 202 million dollars. not a huge hit by any measure but not a total flop.


now WOTC made 1.325 billion dollars in profit in 2022. Roughly 80% of that as best I can determine and according to WOTC was magic the Gathering. so DND and everything else made about 265 million dollars. Even if WOTC only get's 10 or 20 million of the gross that's not chump change looking at how much money DND brings in.

they don't need to bring in 200 million in dnd players to make money they've already crossed that goal. Every new player and every dollar from box office they get is gravy at this point.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, that would be the combined total.

Neither side spent 200 million.
Paramount needs their take of box office distro (everywhere but Canada and UK) and streaming (USA only so far) and share of digital downloads (there's been no public statement about split there) to beat their 75+62

Soneobes going to take a dunking.

We xan throw the X2.5 thing out since we have a number for marketing not.

151 million production
64 million marketing.

215 million.

Broadly speaking double tgat number. Break even point approx 430 million. Give or take 10% due to the sliding scale.

D&D fell well short of that.

The breaking expectations week one is kind of irrelevant. Those expectations were low to begin with based on pre sales of tickets for a 150 million movie. Even then it exceeded expectations by less than 10% iirc

Also remember how I said marketing is close to 50% of the production budgetfor block Buster movies? 62 is less than 75 million but it wasn't to far off.

X2.5 is used when the marketing budget isn't known. If the movie exceeds that its kind of assumed the back end (streaming etc) takes care of that.

Every movie on variety hit list cleared that 2.5 multiplier.

HAT lost 100 million at the box office. It's not impossible it can limp to a profit overall but sequels are unlikely and it's not a hit movie by any definition and it's being reported as a flop.

 

[mamba]

Yes, that would be the combined total.

Neither side spent 200 million.
Paramount needs their take of box office distro (everywhere but Canada and UK) and streaming (USA only so far) and share of digital downloads (there's been no public statement about split there) to beat their 75+62 AND be more profitable than their other similar properties.

yes, we agree on what the goal is, individually making sufficiently more than was spent to make the investment worthwhile.

Still not seeing how Paramount gets there, and for Hasbro I am not sure it is more than a theoretical path to get there. This is the much more interesting part than the problem statement

 

[Zardnaar]

budget was 150 million. As of May 10th it had grossed 202 million dollars. not a huge hit by any measure but not a total flop.


now WOTC made 1.325 billion dollars in profit in 2022. Roughly 80% of that as best I can determine and according to WOTC was magic the Gathering. so DND and everything else made about 265 million dollars. Even if WOTC only get's 10 or 20 million of the gross that's not chump change looking at how much money DND brings in.

they don't need to bring in 200 million in dnd players to make money they've already crossed that goal. Every new player and every dollar from box office they get is gravy at this point.

Revenue not profit. Theatres take a cut of that approx 50% overall.

So 210+ million in costs and around 50% of the box office total 100+ millio).

HAT has a 100 million hole to fill on the back end.

 

[bedir than]

yes, we agree on what the goal is, individually making sufficiently more than was spent to make the investment worthwhile.

Still not seeing how Paramount gets there, and for Hasbro I am not sure it is more than a theoretical path to get there. This is the much more interesting part than the problem statement

UK was 17 mill, that's an eOne distro zone.
Canada is included in domestic, so let's just give them the percent of domestic that they are comparing GDPs (8%) -- dropping 7.5.
Combined we'll say that's 25 million of box that was primarily to eOne not Paramount Global.

That leaves 183 for Paramount Global for the box. Their spend was 137, which if we go by the metrics of 2019 as some here wish to ignore streaming, would mean hits profit number at 234, which is a shortfall of just over 50 million.

But, we also know that Honor Among Thieves is selling digital downloads better than Super Mario (which earned 75 million in its first 40 days that way). We still don't know the revenue split between the two production companies, plus Alphabet, Amazon and Apple want their take.

We also know that D&D spent more than four weeks in the top five most viewed streaming options in the United States (it's only available there). It beat and in some cases crushed, movies that had bigger box offices. Paramount+ ranges from ad supported at 5.99 to nearly 20 per month in various bundles.

But can Paramount's digital and streaming take reach 50 million? Because more popular box office movies took in more than 50 while being less popular online.

The split and the sharing of costs, with unequal revenue capture due to unequal desires from the movie are what are likely to mean Paramount isn't angry at Hasbro for forcing them into losing money. August 3rd is when we'll find out.

This headline may be relevant

Paramount Global Cl B stock outperforms competitors on strong trading day

Shares of Paramount Global Cl B rose 1.37% to $15.57 Monday, on what proved to be an all-around dismal trading session for the stock market, with the S&P 500...

www.marketwatch.com

 

[Zardnaar]

UK was 17 mill, that's an eOne distro zone.
Canada is included in domestic, so let's just give them the percent of domestic that they are comparing GDPs (8%) -- dropping 7.5.
Combined we'll say that's 25 million of box that was primarily to eOne not Paramount Global.

That leaves 183 for Paramount Global for the box. Their spend was 137, which if we go by the metrics of 2019 as some here wish to ignore streaming, would mean hits profit number at 234, which is a shortfall of just over 50 million.

But, we also know that Honor Among Thieves is selling digital downloads better than Super Mario (which earned 75 million in its first 40 days that way). We still don't know the revenue split between the two production companies, plus Alphabet, Amazon and Apple want their take.

We also know that D&D spent more than four weeks in the top five most viewed streaming options in the United States (it's only available there). It beat and in some cases crushed, movies that had bigger box offices. Paramount+ ranges from ad supported at 5.99 to nearly 20 per month in various bundles.

But can Paramount's digital and streaming take reach 50 million? Because more popular box office movies took in more than 50 while being less popular online.

The split and the sharing of costs, with unequal revenue capture due to unequal desires from the movie are what are likely to mean Paramount isn't angry at Hasbro for forcing them into losing money. August 3rd is when we'll find out.

This headline may be relevant

Paramount Global Cl B stock outperforms competitors on strong trading day

Shares of Paramount Global Cl B rose 1.37% to $15.57 Monday, on what proved to be an all-around dismal trading session for the stock market, with the S&P 500...

www.marketwatch.com

I think another poster demolished your cherry picked HAT streaming success.

You're basically implying it's earned more than Mario which got around 6 times more than HAT at the BO.

No one's denying HAT might turn a profit but you're over estimating how much income toys and VoD bring in. Toys are town Hasbros entire toy division is a few hundred million.

And steaming is also iffy in this case since Paramount is losing money there and the studio and streamer are one and the same.

In any event that income isn't counted in terms of box office flops.

 

[bedir than]

You're basically implying it's earned more than Mario which got around 6 times more than HAT at the BO.

I actually backed up the digital downloads and streaming information with evidence.

Mario is better on Amazon in the US, usually but not always. Honor Among Thieves is better on iTunes and Google worldwide.

Mario on iTunes

Honor Among Thieves

The data has all been linked and shared. This is for digital and physical products only, and not for streaming.

Mario isn't streaming. So talking about its streaming take is silly.

Wild speculation with unsupported statements and assertions isn't "Taking me down." It's just speculation and assertion.

Links, to raw data is evidence. And the evidence shows that globally Honor Among Thieves is doing quite well as a digital product, better than Air, better than Mario.

Is it enough? I don't know. I haven't claimed it is.

In any event that income isn't counted in terms of box office flops.

Right. That's clear. But the opening sentence of the topic started by you was about overall financial success, not just the box office. Pointing out the successes on streaming and digital are indicators. They're a way to crack through the veil that modern companies put up to block knowledge. But they're also modern, not a pre-pandemic measure with less relevance. It's not like the MCU is dead because it had three bad movies, or the DCU is dead because it had 12 bad movies.

Companies keep making franchise movies for a reason, and it's not because of a pre 2020 box office algorithm

 

[mamba]

so DND and everything else made about 265 million dollars. Even if WOTC only get's 10 or 20 million of the gross that's not chump change looking at how much money DND brings in.

they don't need to bring in 200 million in dnd players to make money they've already crossed that goal.

are you suggesting WotC is ok with wasting 100M with little to show for, because D&D already makes a profit of 200+M without spending those 100M at all?

No, that investment has to justify itself, they are not in the business of burning cash, just because they make some nice profits…

 

[Zardnaar]

I actually backed up the digital downloads and streaming information with evidence.

Mario is better on Amazon in the US, usually but not always. Honor Among Thieves is better on iTunes and Google worldwide.

Mario on iTunes
View attachment 288933

Honor Among Thieves
View attachment 288934

The data has all been linked and shared. This is for digital and physical products only, and not for streaming.

Mario isn't streaming. So talking about its streaming take is silly.

Wild speculation with unsupported statements and assertions isn't "Taking me down." It's just speculation and assertion.

Links, to raw data is evidence. And the evidence shows that globally Honor Among Thieves is doing quite well as a digital product, better than Air, better than Mario.

Is it enough? I don't know. I haven't claimed it is.


Right. That's clear. But the opening sentence of the topic started by you was about overall financial success, not just the box office. Pointing out the successes on streaming and digital are indicators. They're a way to crack through the veil that modern companies put up to block knowledge. But they're also modern, not a pre-pandemic measure with less relevance. It's not like the MCU is dead because it had three bad movies, or the DCU is dead because it had 12 bad movies.

Companies keep making franchise movies for a reason, and it's not because of a pre 2020 box office algorithm

That's only two services though and you're extrapolating tgat across the board.

Doesn't mean HAT has made mire than Mario for example.

If it had I woukd vet you woukd hear about it Paramount woukd (should) be screaming that from the rooftops.

And none of your arguments are supported by hard figures for income. It found be number 1 on very modest income stream.

And are you aware those services also take a large % as well?

You're basically implying doing well on some services for around a month can beat Mario in income steams.

Doesn't work like that. I'm guessing you don't have a total HAT is earning on streaming?

I'm using a link you provided btw.

Must Watch: The Most-Streamed TV Shows and Movies This Week

Need something to binge this weekend? Here are this week's most-watched titles from Apple TV+, Disney+, Hulu, Max, Netflix, Paramount+ With Showtime, Peacock, Prime Video, and more.

au.pcmag.com

It's beating movies that did even worse than HAT at the box office although it's unclear if it's in order.

Must Watch: The Most Streamed TV Shows and Movies This Week

Seems to be beating a pile of crud and losing to the usual suspects (Wick, Mario, Avatar).

 

[bedir than]

That's only two services though and you're extrapolating tgat across the board.

No, it's not. I linked all of them. Your failure to read is not my problem

And are you aware those services also take a large % as well?

Yes, that's why I specifically said we don't know. Please do me the courtesy of reading my statements.

Seems to be beating a pile of crud and losing to the usual suspects (Wick, Mario, Avatar).

Are you suggesting that Air and Creed III were "piles of crud?" Are you further suggesting that being in the top five for a month, all linked here as evidence, doesn't matter? Are you ignoring a month long stretch beating Lasso and Succession?

I'm talking about weeks of performance on multiple platforms globally and you're just ignoring the words and links to argue.