D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Rogue and Cunning Strike

[Henadic Theologian]

I'm completely happy with this Rogue.

 

[AmandaBarbarian]

Spellcaster with Tasha's Hideous Laughter

1) Must be 3rd level, though more uses at higher levels
2) Does not need to hit first at all
3) Target makes a Wis save (tends to be harder to make than a Dex save on average)
4) Foe is all of prone and incapacitated
5) Foe continues to be prone and incapacitated each round thereafter until they make the save

why would the wizard sorcerer artificer or warlock not be able to be 1st level? it is a 1st level spell

 

[tetrasodium]

This is a PC ability, not a monster one. Although I would have no problem using it on my PCs; they can't really complain about something that's a level 5 rogue ability.

and?

No nothing about that combo is a reasonable at will round after round ability for a player to possess. We are talking about a level five ability.

After repeating the obvious it's still a save or lose cabtrip equivalent that is accessable at the low level of five single class levels.

I mean, warlocks have easy access to an at-will push that doesn’t even get a save. It’s really not that big of a deal. Literally just use multiple monsters in an encounter (which is how they’re designed to work anyway).

That's comparing Apples and smoke clouds. You are talking about a push that does not trip or cause the target to drop an object of the warlock's choice. Push a flying creature & it's still flying, it doesn't fall out of the sky because trip imposes prone (pg72). A push that doesn't hand the troll/ogre/giant/bandit/etc or other martial monster to a PC. It's also a push that doesn't hand a spellcaster's focus item to a nearby PC.

 

[TwoSix]

That's comparing Apples and smoke clouds. You are talking about a push that does not trip or cause the target to drop an object of the warlock's choice. Push a flying creature & it's still flying, it doesn't fall out of the sky because trip imposes prone (pg72). A push that doesn't hand the troll/ogre/giant/bandit/etc or other martial monster to a PC. It's also a push that doesn't hand a spellcaster's focus item to a nearby PC.

Still not seeing the issue. Lots of classes can drop a flyer, or disarm, or trip/shove. What's the big deal with another class being able to do it?

 

[Kurotowa]

Also, let's not forget that Cunning Strikes aren't free. They're actually the mirror image of Battlemaster maneuvers. Maneuvers add bonus damage whether or not they succeed, which is why they're a limited resource. Cunning Strikes cost damage, even if they fail. And as the saying goes, the most powerful debuff is death. Every die of damage the Rogue trades away is a chance the enemy lives another round.

 

[tetrasodium]

Still not seeing the issue. Lots of classes can drop a flyer, or disarm, or trip/shove. What's the big deal with another class being able to do it?

Name the ones that can do it at will from 100+feet away & what they use to do so with an at will ability

 

[TwoSix]

Name the ones that can do it at will from 100+feet away & what they use to do so with an at will ability

Being at-will is extraneous. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. You only need to disarm someone or knock down a flyer once.

 

[tetrasodium]

Being at-will is extraneous. That's the whole point I'm trying to make. You only need to disarm someone or knock down a flyer once.

I feel like there was a point already made to counter this and it was not even one made by me

Spoiler: ahh yes here it was

5e is 100% designed for multiple monsters in an encounter.

So again, name the classes that can do it every round of every encounter through an entire adventuring day adventuring day after adventuring day & what abilities they are using to do it from 100+ feet away.

 

[TwoSix]

I feel like there was a point already made to counter this and it was not even one made by me

Exactly. If you're fighting 4 flyers, you can only drop 1/round, at best (assuming a hit + failed save). By round 4, the fight will usually be wrapping up, anyway.

 

[tetrasodium]

Exactly. If you're fighting 4 flyers, you can only drop 1/round, at best (assuming a hit + failed save). By round 4, the fight will usually be wrapping up, anyway.

You see a lot of level 5 parties capable of taking on 4 dragons 4 manticores 4 banshees... 4 etc? Flying monsters are frequently made to be the main if not only threat in encounters with them. You can't simply throw in an army of them or strip flight away while the monster remains useful as an interesting monster because doing so changes it to an exp pinyata