OSR Old school wizards, how do you play level 1?

[Lanefan]

This style of DMing is considered a design flaw nowadays but back in the earlier editions, it was essential.

Had I seen this I'd have considered it a design flaw then too. (I never owned the Expert set in any version)

It's a game of luck, and sometimes that luck doesn't run good.

 

[Mannahnin]

I still call BS on the notion that combat didn't dominate D&D/AD&D low level play during the "you only get one spell a day at first level" era. (It could be worse, of course -- there was a time when clerics got zero spells at level 1.) That doesn't account for every table, of course, but I am confident which style predominated overall.

Well, if a lot of people were playing it with combat dominating their sessions, then SpellObject's perception that fudging was necessary and heavily employed makes sense.

Those editions do NOT support playing with a ton of combat unless you're fudging like crazy. Which we certainly did some of when I was a kid.

Certainly the couple of hundred sessions I've played of old school in recent years have not been as combat heavy as the ones when I was 10-12 years old.

Should we also maybe define our terms a little here? In terms of what constitutes "a ton of combat" I'm thinking "half or more of the session time". In my experiences with OD&D and B/X normal dungeon adventures involve less than a quarter of the play time spent in combat, with much more given over to exploring, searching, negotiating, and planning.

 

[Lanefan]

Whatever the origins of B2, the fact remains that, starting in December 1979 -- 43 years ago -- the adventure nearly everyone entering the game played, often many times, was incredibly combat dense. If combat wasn't taking up the majority of the sessions centered on the Caves of Chaos (because the rest of the Borderlands content can be used up pretty quickly), I would be shocked. What did your groups do instead of combat at the caves?

Believe it or not, the one time I ever ran KotB my lot tried diplomacy - when they weren't busy with their own infighting, that is - and managed to get the Hobgoblins onside to help fight some of the other baddies.

Of course, their infighting and complete lack of organization soon annoyed the Hobs to the point where they figured the party were more of a threat than the Caves' other occupants...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Certainly the couple of hundred sessions I've played of old school in recent years have not been as combat heavy as the ones when I was 10-12 years old.

For sure. But I don't think we can say that the way people in their 50s with decades of RPG experience play OSR games is indicative of how a bunch of middle and high schoolers with a year or two under their belts -- and no one with even a decade of experience -- played.

As played by experienced adults, it's definitely much easier to succeed at AD&D than it was at the time.

 

[Voadam]

Moldvay X59: "A Common mistake most DMs make is to rely too much on random die rolls. An entire evening can be spoiled if an unplanned wilderness encounter on the way to the dungeon goes badly for the party. The DM must use good judgement in addition to random tables. Encounters should be scaled to the strength of the party and should be in harmony with the theme of the adventure."

That seems to be more about encounter design than altering attack and damage die rolls to keep an MU alive.

Mentzer later adds on to the above in his Expert book, pg 25: "The DM may choose a number within a given die range rather than roll for the amount of damage, number appearing, etc. This may be necessary to allow for a more enjoyable game; heavy damage early in the game may spoil some of the fun."

Mentzer also included the following section in his Basic book, pg 16: "Whenever two or more events could occur and a decision is needed, or whenever a variety of results is possible, dice may be used to randomly select a result. Experienced Dungeon Masters may select results instead of rolling dice.
EXAMPLE: A character with 3 hit points is hit by a monster with a normal sword (damage 1-8). Death could easily result - through no fault of the player's, merely a random result of the Hit roll. To keep the character alive as long as possible, the DM rolls for damage - but ignores the result, and announces that 2 points of damage were done. The character retreats and the game continues.
...
The DM may select any number given in the range for Number Appearing, Damage, and so forth, depending on the situation."

I had gone from Moldvay/Cook B/X and skipped BECMI BE only picking up C when it came out hoping to get more stuff for after B/X (and being really disappointed in the thief materials), so this is new to me.

This is an explicit call for adjusting damage rolls. It also seems a new development starting with BECMI.

 

[Lanefan]

A single classed MU could not use a crossbow in 1e. Were you using a house rule that just put non-proficiency penalties on weapons not useable by the class?

Non-prof penalties are RAW, and listed in the PH. For a MU it's -5 to hit. We always assumed it applied to any weapon the character picked up regardless of class etc., using the logic that says any idiot can pick up any weapon and try to use it but won't know what they're doing.

 

[darjr]

One game I ran the party got support from the orcs. That helped them a ton.

Then they went back to the keep to rest up and hire new support. When they got back the valley was full of orc “statues”.

 

[darjr]

Don’t get me wrong though. There was a lot of combat. Especially at higher levels.

 

[Lanefan]

As played by experienced adults, it's definitely much easier to succeed at AD&D than it was at the time.

The four players, two with decades of experience and the other two not exactly rookies, who lost a total of 22 characters when I ran KotB - yeah, they'd like a word.

The best part: those players and I were laughing our damn fool heads off the entire time!

 

[darjr]

And let me add if you did run it as set piece battles or rooms in isolation I think that’s awesome too if you were having fun.

Especially if that’s how you’d prefer to run.