D&D General How does magic work in D&D (In-Universe/Lorewise)?

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Eh, Mage: The A________ and Ars Magica have a logic to their magic -- the games are built around it -- and if anything, their magic seems more magical than D&D, even if players and characters can actually discuss how it works.

I haven't played any Ars Magica, so I can't speak to it.
I've played plenty of Mage. It's magic, too, falls apart if you really dig at it with logic. All magic systems run aground and eventually make you wave your hands and say, "do not look at the man behind the curtain".
 

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Well, no magic system will stand up to critical thinking, so that's probably a good thing.
I don't agree on the first part, but would mostly agree on the second part.

The parts of a magic system in an rpg that are irreducibly problematic are the pieces you kinda have to accept as opening assumptions.

"magic is a thing" and
"people/creatures can interact with magic"

Accepting those assumptions, I see no reason a magic system should necessarily fail any critical considration of it's functioning.

That said. I understand that D&D is a toolkit not a setting, so I'm fine with a "don't think about it" approach to any "big picture" type considerations.

But..

I'd expect characters to have some mechanical understanding for how they do the stuff they do, why they can't do things they can't do, why other people can't do the things they can do, etc.

I think the game should provide this to the players/DM.
 
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I suppose critical thinking may have become unpopular.
How I wish this were true. Sadly I've been in too many "martial vs. caster" and "the problem with halflings" threads to truly believe this.
Seriously, tho, and I think it's already been said. Past editions did offer in-world explanations. In 4e each source had a different rationalization (heroic effort, memorization, divine providence, etc) for why some of their abilities couldn't just be used every round; in 3.x spells were either prepared (most of the spell cast in advance, then triggered when needed, thus each spell chosen in advance and gone once used) (y) or spontaneous (cast improvisationally by sheer talent and innate power... said innate power being used up in some weird way that corresponded to slots? :confused: ); in the TSR era, spells were memorized (litterally the magic of the spell was impressed on your brain, like if you were trephenated, there'd be glowing runes in there) and when cast, that memory was lost, while the power of the spell came from another dimension of pure energy, which you exchanged for the material components of the spell (and/or the breath you exhaled) to maintain some sort of cosmological balance. (I am not making that last bit up, I swear.)
These would certainly be more interesting than what we have in 5e, and, it seems, would at least begin to address some of the setting mechanics questions that kinda drive me nuts if I allow myself to think about them very long.
 

jgsugden

Legend
I have a system developed over more than 4 decades. It works really well for me and once put in place, it makes a lot of rulings very easy to make. It has evolved over those 4 decades, but mostly in terminology. The underlying structure has been pretty steady since I developed this in the early 1980s.

There is a magic weave that begins in the Positive Energy Plane and ends in the Negative Energy Plane. Arcane, Divine and Nature Magic flow through it to reach spellcasters and magical effects/items. Arcane magic is pulled from it by intellect or force of will, divine magic is delivered through it after being puhed by divine forces, and nature magic is allowed to flow freely from it by druids and rangers that understand how to work within the balance. Things like Detect Magic and Dispel magic interact with these types of magic because they deal with the connection to the weave.

In addition, there are two more types of magic: Supernatural and Psionic. Psionic magic comes from within the caster. It was the primary magic of the Far Realms, and it powers many aberrations, as well as psions, psychic warriors and monks. Dispel magic has no impact on psionics. Supernatural magic is everything that does not come from the weave and is not psionic. It includes ghosts, lycanthropy, chemistry, gravity, ritual magics, elemental magics, the unique characteristics of the planes, and many other hard to explain things. Rather than come from the weave, these magics are powered by the forces of the universe - often including strong emotions or fundamental forces.

Those are the basics. I have more detail (such as why healing magic is hard for wizards, etc...) that builds off of this central lore, but it all grows out of the above simple structure.
 


Voadam

Legend
Some 5e class descriptions have a little bit about the nature of magic as well and provide some narrative material to work with.

In the worlds of D&D, words and music are not just vibrations of air, but vocalizations with power all their own. The bard is a master of song, speech, and the magic they contain. Bards say that the multiverse was spoken into existence, that the words of the gods gave it shape, and that echoes of these primordial Words of Creation still resound throughout the cosmos. The music of bards is an attempt to snatch and harness those echoes, subtly woven into their spells and powers.

You have learned to untangle and reshape the fabric of reality in harmony with your wishes and music.

Divine magic, as the name suggests, is the power of the gods, flowing from them into the world. Clerics are conduits for that power, manifesting it as miraculous effects. The gods don't grant this power to everyone who seeks it, but only to those chosen to fulfill a high calling. Harnessing divine magic doesn't rely on study or training. A cleric might learn formulaic prayers and ancient rites, but the ability to cast cleric spells relies on devotion and an intuitive sense of a deity's wishes.

A s a conduit for divine power, you can cast cleric spells.

Druids revere nature above all, gaining their spells and other magical powers either from the force of nature itself or from a nature deity.

Drawing on the divine essence of nature itself, you can cast spells to shape that essence to your will.

Different paladins focus on various aspects of the cause of righteousness, but all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work. Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god.

By 2nd level, you have learned to draw on divine magic through meditation and prayer to cast spells as a cleric does.

Thanks to their familiarity with the wilds, rangers acquire the ability to cast spells that harness nature's power, much as a druid does.

By the time you reach 2nd level, you have learned to use the magical essence of nature to cast spells, much as a druid does.

Magic is a part of every sorcerer, suffusing body, mind, and spirit with a latent power that waits to be tapped. Some sorcerers wield magic that springs from an ancient bloodline infused with the magic of dragons. Others carry a raw, uncontrolled magic within them, a chaotic storm that manifests in unexpected ways.
The appearance of sorcerous powers is wildly unpredictable. Some draconic bloodlines produce exactly one sorcerer in every generation, but in other lines of descent every individual is a sorcerer. Most of the time, the talents of sorcery appear as apparent flukes. Some sorcerers can't name the origin of their power, while others trace it to strange events in their own lives. The touch of a demon, the blessing of a dryad at a baby's birth, or a taste of the water from a mysterious spring might spark the gift of sorcery. So too might the gift of a deity of magic, exposure to the elemental forces of the Inner Planes or the maddening chaos of Limbo, or a glimpse into the inner workings of reality.
Sorcerers have no use for the spellbooks and ancient tomes of magic lore that wizards rely on, nor do they rely on a patron to grant their spells as warlocks do. By learning to harness and channel their own inborn magic, they can discover new and staggering ways to unleash that power.

An event in your past, or in the life of a parent or ancestor, left an indelible mark on you, infusing you with arcane magic. This font of magic, whatever its origin, fuels your spells.

A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being. Sometimes the relationship between warlock and patron is like that of a cleric and a deity, though the beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods. A warlock might lead a cult dedicated to a demon prince, an archdevil, or an utterly alien entity-beings not typically served by clerics. More often, though, the arrangement is similar to that between a master and an apprentice. The warlock learns and grows in power, at the cost of occasional services performed on the patron's behalf.
The magic bestowed on a warlock ranges from minor but lasting alterations to the warlock's being (such as the ability to see in darkness or to read any language) to access to powerful spells.

Your arcane research and the magic bestowed on you by your patron have given you facility with spells.

I n your study of occult lore, you have unearthed eldritch invocations, fragments of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability.

Though the casting of a typical spell requires merely the utterance of a few strange words, fleeting gestures, and sometimes a pinch or clump of exotic materials, these surface components barely hint at the expertise attained after years of apprenticeship and countless hours of study.

The spells that you add to your spellbook as you gain levels reflect the arcane research you conduct on your own, as well as intellectual breakthroughs you have had about the nature of the multiverse.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
How I wish this were true. Sadly I've been in too many "martial vs. caster" and "the problem with halflings" threads to truly believe this.
I mean, what do you think gave me that impression? :LOL:
These would certainly be more interesting than what we have in 5e, and, it seems, would at least begin to address some of the setting mechanics questions that kinda drive me nuts if I allow myself to think about them very long.
I think what they were going for in 5e was to let everyone use the explanations they preferred (from past editions), possibly overlooking that there'd be new players with no preconcieved notions, or just figuring, "eh, FR is most popular setting, it's Da Weave, newbie, don't critical think about it too hard." 😏
 

I mean, what do you think gave me that impression? :LOL:

I think what they were going for in 5e was to let everyone use the explanations they preferred (from past editions), possibly overlooking that there'd be new players with no preconcieved notions, or just figuring, "eh, FR is most popular setting, it's Da Weave, newbie, don't critical think about it too hard." 😏
Tbh, I'm actually more or less ok with that.

Until, it feels like, every DM has a compulsion to 'fix' the 'problem' with 'unrealistic falling damage' and the like.

And I'm over here going, "I thought the was the 'don't think about it too hard' edition. Like..sure we can make sure PCs die when they fall...but are we just gonna ignore how none of this other stuff has like..any..setting justification"
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Another lofty goal of 5e that it actually achieved was to re-capture that Classic D&D Feel.

Every DM feeling the compulsion to fix some (but not nearly all) of the things obviously wrong with the game, and doing so differently from every other DM, was a big part of that feel. 😏
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
That's a good question. What I would like is an example. Like a more detailed guide on how magic works in the forgotten realms that explains the mechanical game rules. And from that it would be easier for me, to adjust it for my table needs.
Do you play in the Forgotten Realms? Because if not any explanation example can potentially work. Gygax's version seemed workable to me.
 

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