Unpopular opinions go here

[Bedrockgames]

And the species should be an important part (if not the dominant part) of what defines that PC, and stat adjustments are a key differentiator between species.

That 5e has watered them down to near pointlessness is a big step toward homogenizing the various species, wich defeats the purpose of having them in the first place.

This

 

[Cadence]

If a player wants to build a traditional elf, they still can with floating ASI.

The player who wants to play a non-traditional elf shouldn't be forced to play a traditional elf.

They were never forced to unless their DM did the forcing. The DM can still do that, it's just whether it's opt-in or opt-out.

This whole thing gets way, way too close to racial essentialism. It's kinda gross.

How is having wings or infravision or trance or being taller or shorter or faster moving rate or having a carrying capacity like you were one size category bigger any worse in that way than being less dexterous or less enduring or less strong?

(I will note I left off Int, Wis, and Chr intentionally).

 

[Bedrockgames]

How is having wings or infravision or trance or being taller or shorter or faster moving rate or having a carrying capacity like you were one size category bigger any worse in that way than being less dexterous or less enduring or less strong?

(I will note I left off Int, Wis, and Chr intentionally).

Racial essentialism in the real world is poison and terrible. I think we all agree on that. Equating fantasy races having distinct physical characteristics the way aliens from different planets might be different, or different humanoid species on earth might be different, with that, is a sign of a limited imagination and an un-nuanced mind

 

[Bedrockgames]

It is the same type of thinking that led people to think magic existing in D&D, and demons existing in D&D, meant it was a satanic game

 

[overgeeked]

(I will note I left off Int, Wis, and Chr intentionally).

And that proves the point.

 

[Cadence]

And that proves the point.

Which part(s) does it prove?
That there is a line somewhere where things get yeuchy?
That physical capabilities of different species seem different than mental capabilities of different species in this regard?
That giving Elves a Dex ASI isn't particularly problematic (if arguably not great design) but the Dark/High/Wood/Pallid bonus to the mental one could be and should just be a floating one?

 

[Hussar]

To be fair, it's because there's one dominant game, and people are expressing their preferences through it.

It's just as easy to turn that around and say, "Look, the game has these stats and adjustments. But you can always just use floating ASIs."

In other words, why do other people need the entire game, for everyone, to fit the new pattern?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

But … that’s precisely what the game is saying.

And by comparing it to rewriting the entire character generation system I believe is a huge slippery slope argument. We can’t have floating asi’s because there’s no difference from a point buy character generation? C’mon.

I’m sorry but if someone’s insisting that they can only enjoy pizza if everyone else at the table is only allowed to eat the same pizza, well, I have no sympathy for that customer.

@Bedrockgames complains that I characterized it as tyranny. Well, if the shoe fits. I just don’t have any sympathy left for gamers who seem to think that they should be able to tell everyone else at the table what their character should look like. If you play an X, I will only enjoy the game if C is limited to what I like is an incredibly toxic attitude to take.

 

[Hussar]

I’d point out the bigger issue for me here.

The floating ASI is not a problem for the player of that character. No. It’s a problem for someone else at the table who thinks you should only be allowed to create your character in a way that they approve of.

Remember, they aren’t the ones playing the character. The people objecting to floating asi’s are doing so because someone else at the table might play their character differently and in a way that somehow hurts their verisimilitude or suspension of disbelief or whatever. A strong halfling isn’t a problem for the person who chose that character. It’s only a problem from someone else sitting at the table who disapproves of a strong halfling.

Like I said. I have zero sympathy for that person sitting at that table anymore.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This. I get some point want to effectively make the options in Race independent options. Point buy can work as a term here I think. And further, some people might want to have class opened up into point buy was well. I think D&D is a class based game, with race functioning as just one additional layer of class (at least in AD&D). And it is that simplicity of choice which makes it work and gives it a consistent feel. Others don't have to like it, but I am a bit puzzled by the reaction to this very normal, very standard point of view among D&D players, as if we were rejecting the wheel or something. Not all games have to be about open options. Sometimes it is better to not have them be that way

I will say again that, beyond doing what you want at your own table, there are also many other games out there that play differently, games for nearly every taste. Why does D&D constantly have to change to (not quite) meet with the times, when nearly every other long-running game makes mostly minor adjustments?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sarcasm typically serves ego more than it does communication.

Yes, it does.