How much math should RPGs require?

[Celebrim]

Back in the day I used to run games with Phoenix Command as I thoughts greater realism would make for exciting gaming. I even wrote a small program on a Casio pocket computer to handle the complex calculations.

Nowadays I prefer rules light games so I can get on with the fun.

Fundamentally, all you are generating is a fortune. The funny thing about Pheonix Command is despite all of its complex calculations, you could have achieved basically the same result it actually achieved with a D20 system, low hit points, and high weapon damage. So many of the steps were just unnecessary randomization to disguise how little was actually going on that was actually realistic.

 

[mamba]

What is your audience? I have vastly different answers if the game is for ages 8+, 12+, or kinda assume adults.

I can see 8 and 12, but 12 and adult? not in any game I have seen…

 

[TwoSix]

If you aren't using the Lambert W function in your damage calculations, are you really even roleplaying?

 

[BookTenTiger]

I don't think there's an exact answer to this, but I know the golden zone is when I feel like I'm rewarded for coming up with cool combos, but the math doesn't distract from immersion.

Ironsworn has the right ratio to me. You roll two d10s to set the difficulty of your action, then try to overcome each d10 with a 1d6 + stuff. There are some other mathy things you can do, like building and burning a Momentum score. While playing I feel good and powerful when I've chosen character options or actions that allow me to add a lot. But the math itself doesn't take me out of the gameplay or distract from the cool action.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I can see 8 and 12, but 12 and adult? not in any game I have seen…

It depends on if we are talking what a 12 year old is capable of vs. what a 12 year old is likely to enjoy doing (and how often) for fun. Also if we're looking to select for the type of kid who, if not enjoys, gets satisfaction out of solving a math problem.

To fall back on the standby math example, Hero System-- the average twelve year old can add and multiply fractions. If the cost of your highly up- and down-costed 2d+1 RKA attack is (15+15+5) * (1+0.5+.75+1.25+.25)/(1+.25+.5+1.75), and you include everything but the denominator/10 (rounded) for the END cost, I expect that most 12 year-olds could do that. I also expect most would not get through the 5-10 calculations that might occur in character creation without making a mistake. More to my primary point, I think a minority of 12 year olds would find a game where that's part of the expected gameplay loop to be particularly fun.

 

[Laurefindel]

I've brought it up before, but Enforcers was an RPG published in 1987 that came with instructions on how to create a spreadsheet in Lotus 123. Character generation required the use of square roots to calculate some of the information on your character sheet. A calculator was required to play this game. I owned it but never played it of course. No way I was doing square roots for fun.

What? No square root or exponential calculation? But how are you going to do realistic fall damage and calculate the dragon’s speed after five rounds of constant deceleration?!? Think of my suspension of disbelief man! I can only abstract so much!!!

 

[Deset Gled]

In winging it here, but the following sounds about right. To play a TTRPG, you should be able to do any of these operations on the fly, fast enough that it doesn't stop play.

Entry level: Addition and subtraction of 2 to 4 numbers under 3 digits. Multiplication of two numbers under 3 digits. Probability of single dice rolls.

Mid level: Addition and subtraction of 3 to 8 numbers under 3 digits, multiplication and division of 2 to 4 numbers under 3 digits. Rough probability of multiple dice rolled at once, and basic minimum/maximum calculations.

Advanced level: Open ended addition and subtraction of multiple terms. Multiplication and division of multiple terms. Basic combinations, permutations, and rough gaussian curve probabilities. Basic linear algebra.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

Also: calculators exist. (Though HP's offerings have gone downhill since the 48GX.)

 

[dragoner]

The randomization is for fun, the game part; where as the reality is that from an engineering standpoint, there isn't math needed, it gets done if someone is doing a physics problem, though mostly it is just a simple event that happens, such as gun x penetrates armor x at x distance, without need for any further calcs. It's not random though.

 

[aramis erak]

I'm reading a post that talks about levelling up/skill up/what have you, and seeing some algebra involved: at level x-1 you need x experience points to do (some cool thing). Now, this process is probably written out in plain language or found in a table, so there's no actual Solve For X required. But it raises the question...

How much math skill can an RPG expect from its players?

In general - I'd suggest checkign the math standards for upper elementary. Grade 6, ages 11-13.
Here are Alaska's (link to official current PDF) https://education.alaska.gov/akstandards/math/gradelevel/math_standards_grade_6.pdf