D&D General Wishing Away The Adventure

[Crimson Longinus]

Does it? What if not all of the PCs agree and prefer to use magic mounts or flying ships? Teleport is only going to mess things up if everyone wants to use the teleport, and then it’s all the players vs the DM. If the players want to short cut things with teleport, they will, but if they don’t, they won’t.

Like I said before, if the characters have the capability, it makes sense for them to use it even if the players would like to actually do the adventure.

 

[billd91]

Like I said before, if the characters have the capability, it makes sense for them to use it even if the players would like to actually do the adventure.

Sounds like that’s on them then. Bypass much of the adventure, bypass much of the fun/reward. Oh, well. Sucks to be them. At least they‘re picking what they want to do and engage with, right?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Sounds like that’s on them then. Bypass much of the adventure, bypass much of the fun/reward. Oh, well. Sucks to be them. At least they‘re picking what they want to do and engage with, right?

It's not that simple. The game is about overcoming obstacles via means at your disposal. It is unfair to expect players to suddenly switch from that mode to adventure moderation mode. If the characters have win button, it makes sense for them to use it, even if it makes a duller game. If Gandalf would have had an ability to teleport the ring into Mount Doom, it would not make sense in-character to not to do it, even if it would have resulted a boring story. The solution is to not give characters such a win button in the first place.

 

[MarkB]

It's not that simple. The game is about overcoming obstacles via means at your disposal. It is unfair to expect players to suddenly switch from that mode to adventure moderation mode. If the characters have win button, it makes sense for them to use it, even if it makes a duller game. If Gandalf would have had an ability to teleport the ring into Mount Doom, it would not make sense in-character to not to do it, even if it would have resulted a boring story. The solution is to not give characters such a win button in the first place.

Or, at least, to have that 'win' lead to interesting content, not away from it.

 

[Reynard]

It's not that simple. The game is about overcoming obstacles via means at your disposal. It is unfair to expect players to suddenly switch from that mode to adventure moderation mode. If the characters have win button, it makes sense for them to use it, even if it makes a duller game. If Gandalf would have had an ability to teleport the ring into Mount Doom, it would not make sense in-character to not to do it, even if it would have resulted a boring story. The solution is to not give characters such a win button in the first place.

The solution is, at least in part, to actually accept the limitations of even the high powered magic in D&D. Way too often people act as if high level magic is a "win button" when it very often isn't. This is usually easy: do what the book says. The scry discussion is a perfect example: it tells us exactly what it does. it only become OP if one decides to interpret it to mean other things. The key is to embrace the limitations so players can't argue themselves out of the fun.

 

[Oofta]

Like I said before, if the characters have the capability, it makes sense for them to use it even if the players would like to actually do the adventure.

Even if they do it wouldn't make much of a difference in my games. Getting somewhere is rarely all that interesting unless it's truly unexplored territory. Want to teleport to that unexplored territory without a circle? Good luck. I'm not being adversarial with that - it's just how the spell works. Rely on teleport to get away only to find out that the ruins you're located in had inner sanctum or hallow made permanent for that location centuries ago? Better find an alternative.

The group having high level spells is really no more of a challenge than clever and inventive plans my players come up with when they're first level. You simply can't magic away most challenges in my games because my challenges are not based on locations, they're based on events, monsters and NPCs.

 

[billd91]

It's not that simple. The game is about overcoming obstacles via means at your disposal. It is unfair to expect players to suddenly switch from that mode to adventure moderation mode. If the characters have win button, it makes sense for them to use it, even if it makes a duller game. If Gandalf would have had an ability to teleport the ring into Mount Doom, it would not make sense in-character to not to do it, even if it would have resulted a boring story. The solution is to not give characters such a win button in the first place.

There's always something. Even magical mounts and flying ships bypass things that they'd have to encounter with non-magical mounts and ships. Hell, even non-magical mounts allow PCs to bypass having to walk everywhere.

Teleporting is fun and it can certainly lead to adventure. We obtained a chunk of a statue from someone, we didn't know where it was from, but it enabled us to teleport us TO the adventure site because that was where it was from. It really is a question of 1) how you as DM prepare for the potential use, and 2) how the players want to use the tool. And the latter helps tell you what kind of game they want. They pick up Leomund's tiny hut? Don't overly prepare night time encounters (unless they use the spell willy-nilly in the middle of busy dungeons without trying to hide it - then go nuts). They play a ranger when the surrounding wilderness is the ranger's favored terrain? Don't base your adventure prep on them getting lost (but DO incorporate stuff that highlight's the ranger's skill - they'll like it being involved).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

There's always something. Even magical mounts and flying ships bypass things that they'd have to encounter with non-magical mounts and ships. Hell, even non-magical mounts allow PCs to bypass having to walk everywhere.

Sure. And I am not saying that skipping content is automatically bad. It is a matter of taste what content one finds interesting.

Teleporting is fun and it can certainly lead to adventure. We obtained a chunk of a statue from someone, we didn't know where it was from, but it enabled us to teleport us TO the adventure site because that was where it was from. It really is a question of 1) how you as DM prepare for the potential use, and 2) how the players want to use the tool. And the latter helps tell you what kind of game they want. They pick up Leomund's tiny hut? Don't overly prepare night time encounters (unless they use the spell willy-nilly in the middle of busy dungeons without trying to hide it - then go nuts). They play a ranger when the surrounding wilderness is the ranger's favored terrain? Don't base your adventure prep on them getting lost (but DO incorporate stuff that highlight's the ranger's skill - they'll like it being involved).

I just do not believe that players generally think what sort of gameplay their chosen spells and abilities lead to in this sort of meta way. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game," is a real thing. It is job of the game designer and to lesser degree the GM to make sure that this is not possible.

 

[MNblockhead]

But there's a BIG downside to trying a more powerful wish (in 5e). 25% chance of losing your spellcasting ability. How often is the caster willing to court that?

And if it's from an item? Well, that's on the DM for giving it to the party.

They have their simulacrum cast it.

 

[MNblockhead]

I remember a guy back in college who would simply insist on doing his own thing - whether it coincided with what the party was doing or not. We finished the campaign and then simply didn't invite him back when we started a new one.

Emphasis mine. That's is an incredibly patient DM and group of players. Unless by finished the campaign, you mean you ended the campaign after the first session of that nonsense.