Do TTRPGs Need to "Modernize?"

[billd91]

True, I don't like the design of 5e. But I'm also wondering what to do when there isn't a thing I can do in Traveler. Or my friend is sitting there in our Call of Cthulhu game bored out of his mind because he's good at talking in social situations and researching in libraries - but we're in an abandoned mine this session.

He can hold a flashlight or lantern, can't he? He is still another person capable of searching for clues or listening for trouble. He could be toting a shotgun for a little more firepower. He's still a player at the table capable of contributing ideas to the overall situation. If he's not engaged because he isn't built for exploring abandoned mines, that sounds like an attitude problem to work on.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

True, I don't like the design of 5e. But I'm also wondering what to do when there isn't a thing I can do in Traveler. Or my friend is sitting there in our Call of Cthulhu game bored out of his mind because he's good at talking in social situations and researching in libraries - but we're in an abandoned mine this session.

Given your acknowledged lack of experience with the vast wealth of different types of RPGs out there, I would very much recommend trying out some of those games.

Not only will you learn that your entire thesis is incredibly misplaced, you might also learn some helpful techniques that will enable you to better run other games.

I am not kidding - playing other games (and designing bespoke games and rules systems) allows me to be a better DM when I choose to run D&D. More importantly, it might expose you to other ways of thinking about games that would allow you to escape the endless cycle of complaining about the strictures that you think D&D has forced upon you.

Only you can break the wheel.

 

[MGibster]

I hope these 4 Examples - which are ones I see almost weekly - illustrate how many RPGs do a poor job of maintaining fun for the majority of players throughout the session. I think your players would agree, if you asked them. For a hobby that purports to be cooperative, it really rewards solo design.

Those are legitimate problems I think most of us have seen at one point or another. While these problems might be caused or exacerbated by the rules, they might manifest because of the choices the players make. I'm running a game right now and made it clear to the players that they'll need to talk to people as they'll need to ask questions in their search for a missing person. Two players created characters with penalties to normal interactions with other people. I can't blame the rules for that.

Only you can break the wheel.

Not every thread needs to discuss Burning Wheel.

 

[Wolfpack48]

I always found in D&D rolling equal to or less than a characteristic on a d20 to be very freeing for tests that weren’t specifically on the character sheet. Roll INT to observe enemy tactics. Roll DEX to maneuver in a tight spot. Roll CHA to smooth talk a guard. Using the stats can open up a lot of less obvious options.

 

[payn]

I always found in D&D rolling equal to or less than a characteristic on a d20 to be very freeing for tests that weren’t specifically on the character sheet. Roll INT to observe enemy tactics. Roll DEX to maneuver in a tight spot. Roll CHA to smooth talk a guard. Using the stats can open up a lot of less obvious options.

Some folks are good with the vagueness of a rulings over rules style play on both sides of the screen. Others want detailed mechanics to lead them start to finish for a uniform application.

 

[Thomas Shey]

This is one of those questions where the word "need" is, by its nature, doing some heavy lifting.

 

[Aldarc]

We are seeing TTRPGs modernize. Although someone said that OSR is looking backwards, part of the OSR movement has involved, for example, examining these older TTRPGs as "games" with intentional design and realizing that B/X had a fairly solid game design. This has also led to things like NuSR and OSR-inspired games, such as the Odd-like games (e.g., Into the Odd, Mausritter, Cairn, etc.) and even Forbidden Lands. This process has involved a greater intentionality of design around things like exploration, hex crawls, the resource survival mini-game, and random encounters.

Much like with Odd-like games, we are seeing other games like the recent MCDM RPG question the need for attack rolls or if characters should just automatically deal damage.

This is not even including other more narrative-games, such as the PbtA or FitD family of games.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, even a lot of OSR games are going with "Let's look at the parts of older games that had valid design decisions, and clean up the parts that either showed they were early in the design space and didn't have any better ideas, or have shown they don't really work that well, and present the revised concept." Of course some are really hostile to certain modern design decisions, but that's not all of them.

 

[GreyLord]

I have been gaming for decades and much longer than most people I know. I started back in the early 70s.

I find that those who claim modern games today are better than games of the past are normally (words I cannot say here for polite society)...in a nutshell...arrogant pricks who have their heads so far up their "modern" rear ends that they feel entitled to derogatorily sneer at older games and gamers so that they feel superior in their inferior intellect.

I think that somewhat covers how I feel. It's actually quite inadequate, but as I stated above, what I can say here cannot do justice to just how offended these types are to me.

As a Wargamer, there are extremely elegant and excellent designs from the past that are not matched today. At the same time, there are EXCELLENT games that are made today and the innovation of gaming is always surprising and fascinating. No single era is BETTER than another era.

Chess, Shogi, Go are games without equal and they are hundreds of years old!

Acquire, Gettysburg, Diplomacy, Dune are all games that are STILL heralded today as great games. (Edit: Need to add Bridge to this as it's one of my all time FAVORITE card games...which some lump into boardgames...and for the audiences on this board...I think the basic concept and game of Magic the Gathering is still very popular among the gaming crowds).

It upsets me to no end when you have these smug arrogant classist elitest who claim that the modern game design is soooooo much better than things of the past...when most of it is simply preference or their own desire to feel superior to others.

PS: Did the OP actually DISS Chess!!!???? Sigh...

PPS: The video is out and out wrong on some items and aspects. A prime example is when they use Ticket to Ride and say that if you block someone making their route you did it unintentionally. That may be true for those who are just starting to play or novices at it, but trust me, it is ENTIRELY intentional if I am playing and if you are playing with those who use that strategy. It is PLANNED to stop you from being able to make your routes or other strategies. That is a POOR example IMO. The most cutthroat gaming I ever played was actually a Euro. Playing Carcassonne online with high end players was absolutely brutal.

 

[Retreater]

PS: Did the OP actually DISS Chess!!!???? Sigh...

Well, in the quoting of the video I linked. The video creator doesn't like chess.
(For that matter, I don't like it either. But I'm not going to insult people who do like it.)

I guess I'll also go on record as someone who started in the TSR era (maybe a decade after you did). I think there are ways that those original games could be improved, whether it's issues of organization, balance, or just adapting to the past 50 years of play experience. Heck, Gygax himself would agree with that since he didn't stay with the original rules his entire life.

If we're comparing to film, there can be enjoyment going back and watching films from the 1950s-1980s of course. Many of them are "better" than a lot of movies today. Heck, I might like playing a DCC 0-level funnel once a year like watching a Universal Monster Movie.

But there aren't many people who go back to the first silent films and watch for pure cinematic enjoyment. Georges Méliès' "A Trip to the Moon" isn't the same experience as "The Godfather." To me (and maybe just to me), Chainmail is a black and white silent film that doesn't understand the medium of cinema - an academic curiosity - not entertaining gameplay.