Evil Genius Games bleeding personnel?

[sigfried]

Whatever may come of the internal goings on at EGG, I think it's obvious that a bunch of people felt EGG was a toxic workplace. It doesn't really matter what the specifics are, but the CEO might consider some hard self-reflection and adjust EGG's policies to help foster a better work environment. You don't just have 4+ major resignations from a small company because the boss said you can't use AI. It seems, from casual observation, there's a fire in this smoke.

What specifically happened is between the affected and the CEO. But from a customer perspective, I would like to see both a) more good products going forward and b) some encouraging action on the part of EGG to help us understand how they are going to foster a better workplace in the future. We are a cottage industry and it's hard to separate the work from the people. We just saw a bunch of people express anger, sadness, and apparent trauma. That is not trivial.

Very well said. I 100% agree.

A company cannot survive and prosper if it cannot keep good people happy and productive.

The RPG industry is littered with drama and failure. That is both because it is a hard business, because personal artistic passions are a hard mesh with capitalism, and because many people make many serious mistakes. We have to learn to be better to succeed.

 

[JLowder]

This is about people leaving jobs in an hobby they love despite not having an exit strategy and despite a serious lack of similar jobs elsewhere in the industry. My personal feeling is this is about more than 1s and 0s and blocks and chains.

Agree here 100%. And the people involved are tightly constrained over what they can now say.

This kind of staff exodus or turnover has also been endemic across the tabletop game market, particularly with RPG-focused companies, over the past two to three years, and the trend has been been largely obscured by the various spectacular Wizards of the Coast PR blunders and their high-profile waves of staff cuts. Working conditions, company processes, and management attitudes are a huge problem in the RPG market and weigh heavily on the staff impacted by them.

 

[NativeDev]

I wanted to address this in longer form, but since Morrus is doing independent work, and Faith Elisabeth Lilley has just commented, I will be brief.

As a general rule, when there is an internal dispute within a company, it is usually best for the company to say nothing. Even if other people are saying things, the story will go away eventually. Attempting to spin without providing any specifics will just keep the story alive. To use the old saying, "It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." Regardless of the correctness (or lack thereof) of the company's position, very little is gained, and a lot can be lost, by doing anything other than, "We wish them the best of luck in all future endeavors."

Next, given that you have stated your bona fides with regard to ethics, I am sure you are familiar with the concept of willful blindness. While the concept has (obviously) been much more adapted to its use in the law, it's one most people are familiar with. As a general rule, if many of my friends and colleagues resigned from the company that I work for stating that they had ethical issues with the company, I think that it would be important, for me, to understand the reason that they made such a drastic decision. After all, in our capitalist society, resigning for a moral or ethical principle is a statement, and if it is made by several people, that's something I would need to understand. It would neither be sufficient nor acceptable .... for me ... to simply say that maybe the company violated their principles, but I don't need to find out what the violations were.

Some ethical issues have clear-cut answers. Some don't. But I wouldn't feel comfortable writing a long comment regarding the ethics of a situation I was close to which basically ended in a shrug, with the basic premise that I had no idea what the actual dispute was over even though it involved the small company I worked for and my friends. Because either you do have actual knowledge (in which case this post comes off very poorly), or you don't have actual knowledge, in which case this post seems like a long exercise in "nothing to see here," which cannot be an accurate assessment if you don't know what the issue is.

Exactly and ty for saying so. I created an account just to say I was verbally attacked by others, blocked by Elisabeth and my comments culled from her post on LinkedIn for saying the exact same thing.

 

[Kitsune]

I'm getting a sketchy vibe off of the ex-employees here after that last one showed up to self-promote about how much good leader material she is. They've used several scare-words like ethics and trauma and zero details or proof of anything, which is what I'd be doing if I was trying to throw someone under the bus in a not-legally-liable way. On the other hand, plenty of RPG companies have screwed over their employees, bailed with Kickstarter money and never made good, or outright embezzled, so I'm not inclined to come down on the company's side either without some kind of evidence in hand.

 

[technoextreme]

I'm getting a sketchy vibe off of the ex-employees here after that last one showed up to self-promote about how much good leader material she is. They've used several scare-words like ethics and trauma and zero details or proof of anything, which is what I'd be doing if I was trying to throw someone under the bus in a not-legally-liable way. On the other hand, plenty of RPG companies have screwed over their employees, bailed with Kickstarter money and never made good, or outright embezzled, so I'm not inclined to come down on the company's side either without some kind of evidence in hand.

Im pretty sure that was meant to discredit the owner. Like as multiple have said AI shouldn't cause the rhetoric they are using and on top of that they weirdly admitted to overworking the employees.

 

[Grinton]

I'd like to point something out.

Thus far, this conversation has been dominated by questions about blockchain, AI, and web3 technology. Mr. Scott, in fact, drove the conversation this way by hinting at it being the reason behind multiple people jumping ship. However, I don't think this is the case. At least, not excusively.

Note, Ms. Lilley's post in this thread specifically mentions helping ex-employees deal with emotional and psychological trauma. Certainly, people have strong feelings about web3 and AI but I doubt this caused trauma.

I think we need to consider this isn't about the ethics of technology exclusively but the morals and ethics of how employees are treated.

Thus far we've only really seen the resignation announcements, which were vague, and the full court press of Evil Genius employees in this thread. Please remember, when it comes to potential toxic workplaces, it takes time for victims to coordinate, to gather their thoughts, to pluck up their courage (and it does take courage), and to speak out.

So, please remember, this isn't about 1s and 0s, blocks and chains. This is about people leaving jobs in an hobby they love despite not having an exit strategy and despite a serious lack of similar jobs elsewhere in the industry. My personal feeling is this is about more than 1s and 0s and blocks and chains.

My disclaimer: I have no proof of Evil Genius being a toxic workplace. It may be the best place in the world to work - but I do feel we shouldn't be directed by clever words towards technological a boogie man when age old problems might be more likely. Either way, I'm willing to be patient and wait until those who left feel ready and able to speak out.

Well said.

Also worth noting, that based on the post earlier (below), if none of this is about the 1/0s (to abbreviate) then :

1. EGG is much less trust worthy than anyone here previously implied or said;
2. The 1/0s issue is much more important to the people involved than we are appreciating; or
3. The issues within EGG are broader than either 1/0s or ethical treatment alone.

Hi Jim, that was the case for at least one of the people mentioned above. Or at least that was what was explicitly communicated in their letter of resignation.

 

[Umbran]

That is both because it is a hard business, ..., and because many people make many serious mistakes.

So, something folk seem to miss - managing a business, and managing personnel, are full professional skillsets in their own right! Being good game designer (or a lawyer, or a doctor, or having any other professional skillset) does not include the skillsets for running a business around same.

 

[Umbran]

A company cannot survive and prosper if it cannot keep good people happy and productive.

If that were true, sweatshops could not exist and Ebenezer Scrooge would not be a well-recognized archetype.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm getting a sketchy vibe off of the ex-employees here after that last one showed up to self-promote about how much good leader material she is.

Is that self promotion, or more of "I wasn't a bitter crappy employee, I was actually good." That doesn't seem like self promotion to me. And even if it were, what do you expect? These folks are looking for new jobs.

They've used several scare-words like ethics and trauma

Scare words? What words are they supposed to use? How is someone supposed to accurately describe their experiences if they aren't allowed to use words that describe what they are feeling?

and zero details or proof of anything,

because they can't. As has been explained a few times why earlier.

which is what I'd be doing if I was trying to throw someone under the bus in a not-legally-liable way.

And there it is. There's a sketchy vibe here, but to be honest it's coming from you, because you seem to be ascribing selfish and vindictive motivations to these folks without any proof. Which is pretty ironic considering what you just said about "zero details or proof of anything."...

 

[Retreater]

I trust Morrus is still working on gathering the facts. There's no sense in letting tensions rise here on speculation.