D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

[Crimson Longinus]

So gods get powers from your soul, but you can't get power from your soul unless a god gives it to you, huh?

Sounds like a godly conspiracy to me!

I think it makes sense if you see the god as a power aggregator. There are way more believers than there are clerics, so the god gets tiny bits of power from each of the thousands or millions of followers none of which alone would be enough to power a spell, but when put together are enough to fuel several clerics.

 

[Maxperson]

So gods get powers from your soul, but you can't get power from your soul unless a god gives it to you, huh?

Sounds like a godly conspiracy to me!

That's a godspiracy you heathen!

 

[Maxperson]

We have this discussion before. The relationship between the dominions of the Astral Sea and the disparate domains of an Outer Plane require clarification.

Not according to what is written. There's nothing in 5e to indicate that the outer planes are a part of the astral and everything that says that they aren't.

 

[CreamCloud0]

If it's done right, sure. Such an innkeeper isn't going to sit tight in his inn, though. He's going to be out in the world bringing hospitality to those who go without, fighting the tyrants who keep the masses starving, etc.

i mean, the point of the oath of hosptality is pretty much basically that he can take his inn with him on the road, he isn't tied down to the one location.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Its funny, I do not like the versions of D&D cosmology where belief and faith granted clerics their power, but I really like Mage the Ascension where all of reality is shaped by will and belief and paradigm framing can be powerful.

Good point, I really like Mage too. I guess there it is rather different though in a sense that there is no question of "if belief can power your spells, why would you use any other source" as ultimately the belief is source of all magic in that system.

 

[Yaarel]

Not according to what is written. There's nothing in 5e to indicate that the outer planes are a part of the astral and everything that says that they aren't.

Hestavar is an example of a dominion floating in the Astral Sea where gods dwell.

Also "the realms of the gods" is a vague descriptor that can mean the entire Astral Plane.

 

[Maxperson]

Hestavar is an example of a dominion floating in the Astral Sea where gods dwell.

Sure. There are a few places where a few gods live in the Astral. I already said that. The outer planes are not there, though. Per RAW, the astral is a transitive plane only. Further, I don't know if Hestavar is even in 5e.

 

[Umbran]

Good point, I really like Mage too. I guess there it is rather different though in a sense that there is no question of "if belief can power your spells, why would you use any other source" as ultimately the belief is source of all magic in that system.

Eh, no.

Belief isn't the source of magic in Mage. Belief shapes magic in Mage. Short of Ascension, the mere mortal mind cannot really comprehend the totality of how reality works - we need a framework, a point of view, an interpretation, some handles on how it works, in order to enact change.

 

[Voadam]

1e required it. Spells came to you from your god via intermediaries, except for 7th level spells which were brought personally by the god. In 2e you could get 1st and 2nd level spells by faith alone, regardless of where that faith was placed. The Clerics Handbook(I forget the exact name) mentions philosophies and forces as possible sources of spells.

Oh, and the 3.5e PHB said that you could be a cleric of a cause or a source of divine power that wasn't a god.

2e PHBR3 The Complete Priest's Handbook has spellcasting priests of forces and philosophies in addition to clerics.

2e Legends & Lore has spellcasting priests who are followers of philosophical Taoism.

 

[Yaarel]

Sure. There are a few places where a few gods live in the Astral. I already said that. The outer planes are not there, though. Per RAW, the astral is a transitive plane only. Further, I don't know if Hestavar is even in 5e.

The RAW is, the Divine magic comes from the "realms of the gods", including Hestavar.

One "can" channel an Outer Plane.

By extension, Divine magic is Astral magic.