D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[RainOnTheSun]

This is one of the reasons I've always viewed HP as kind of abstract, and more to do with near misses and luck than actual health.

I don't picture a lvl 10 fighter getting stabbed 20 times and still going. I picture it as 20 glancing cuts and grazes.

Likewise I don't picture it as them just standing in dragonfire like it's a fan-heater blowing warm air. I picture it as them getting singed and mildly burnt as they leap onto the ground to avoid its worst effects.

I just don't feel like a guy who can't get stabbed 20 times and keep going has any business being a bodyguard/point man for a guy who can shoot lightning out of his hands.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Myth and folklore, for one. For two, Conan the Barbarian goes up against plenty of divine avatars and the like. For three, Charles Atlas Superpowers, particularly in other pulp-era stories like Doc Savage get that concept at least started.

And, finally, as I noted above, we're already talking about a world where even the so-called "mundane" character, even at something like level 10, can just shrug off dragon fire and then decide to chokeslam the oversized lizard that tried to barbecue him. "Mundane" already doesn't mean what it means to us. These people may look superficially human, but they aren't. Limiting them even to only what olympic athletes could achieve IRL is already out of the question--but so many folks demanding feeble martials expect limits even below that.

And if the game material actually stated any of the ideas you're stating, I could potentially get on board with it. But it doesn't. Supernatural abilities will always require supernatural explanations as far as I'm concetned.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The real irony, of course, is that Batman's true superpower being "I'm rich" is about as accurate as saying that Superman's true superpower is "I'm really strong." It completely misses the actual superpower each possesses, which is far more important to who they are as people than the size of their pocketbook (something many Batman stories take away without losing even one drop of his Batman-ness) or the dumbbell they can lift (something Superman loses many times but never loses his greatest strength.)

Is that actual superpower plot armor?

 

[Shardstone]

But the rest of D&D doesn't reflect that. Epic Kings don't cause their kingdoms to feast or famine by their mood. Epic bakers don't create gingerbread golems. Epic farmers don't raise pumpkins big enough to be weapons of war, epic tailors don't make magic clothes spun of pure gold, spider silk and first true love. All that stuff COULD happen, it does in fairy tales and legends, but NPCs aren't given magic for doing epic things that aren't combat related. D&D is finicky when it comes to who gets magic and supernatural power. You don't get to be magical unless you have a reason. That's why sorcerer is even a thing: it's a CLASS dedicated to explaining why you cast magic without studying it. If D&D is a world where mighty deeds can earn magical power, it should have far more people with magical power than it does.

Unironically would make for an amazing world to RP in though. Think of the random stories and lore bits you could come up with if things like this are possible.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because this is a magical and mythical world where doing mighty deeds turns you into an epic hero. You don't need to have an explanation like a radioactive god bit you and turned you into a demigod or something. It is just a thing a person in this setting can learn. And this is not particularly novel concept. Most of the Wuxia works this way. Doing wire fu simply is something a once mundane person can eventually learn.

I think you do need that reason, and the books don't provide it.

The rest of what you said I agree with.

 

[Remathilis]

I agree with everything except your final note, which I very much disagree with. D&D is only about epic heroes if your table wants it to be, and there's no in-universe difference between PCs and NPCs, so your request makes no sense to me in the setting.

I know you don't agree with it, but I have always viewed PCs as having potential that most people will never have. They aren't alone, lots of NPCs do that as well, but some npcs and all PCs have that spark. It's what sets them apart from common soldiers and pickpockets, they aren't equal to a fighter and a rogue.

It would be an interesting world where every person in the world has the potential or actually has a PC level class.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Most play happens during the first ten levels, so if the character can work as mundane there, that covers a lot of actual play. Also, a mundane farm boy slowly evolving to become a mythic hero with superhuman powers better fits D&D's levelling paradigm than just starting out as a mythic hero.

Yeah the whole 'zero to hero' is the character type I love the most. But over the years it seems like DnD is moving away from that.

And talking with people on here and other places like reddit, it seems like most of the community wants it to move away from that, and towards 'hero to demigod' instead.

 

[Mephista]

And if the game material actually stated any of the ideas you're stating, I could potentially get on board with it. But it doesn't. Supernatural abilities will always require supernatural explanations as far as I'm concetned.

I think

But the rest of D&D doesn't reflect that. Epic Kings don't cause their kingdoms to feast or famine by their mood. Epic bakers don't create gingerbread golems. Epic farmers don't raise pumpkins big enough to be weapons of war, epic tailors don't make magic clothes spun of pure gold, spider silk and first true love. All that stuff COULD happen, it does in fairy tales and legends, but NPCs aren't given magic for doing epic things that aren't combat related.

Says you. Fisher kings exist in the Feywild. Magic items there were made of things like "a sense of wonder." And you can shape plants there into giant shape, then Awaken them.

 

[Shardstone]

Yeah the whole 'zero to hero' is the character type I love the most. But over the years it seems like DnD is moving away from that.

And talking with people on here and other places like reddit, it seems like most of the community wants it to move away from that, and towards 'hero to demigod' instead.

That's where I want to move to, personally. I don't enjoy zero to hero. It has gotten played out for me because it's the default not just for games, but for most media. I much more enjoy starting as someone who is competent and then becomes great.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Not good enough for me. People in my settings don't get to surpass mundane limits without explicit explanation.

it's still an explaination though, even if you don't like it, the mundane extraordinary hero can thus exist for the people who want it and you can just ban it at your table then if you hate it that much.