Chaosmancer
Legend
I am not casting shade on anyone. I am pointing out that players purposely build these classes to be good at combat and that is why those characters are only good at combat.
So... building a fighter to be good at combat, means that they can only be good at combat. And that is because of the players, not because of the game design.
I know they will because I play a lot of games at high level.
Pick any 10 in order and you will find the same.
At high level most monsters that matter will have resistances, immunities and legendary resistance.
Descent into Avernus, at level 3 MOST enemies you are facing have magic resistance. That is at level 3.
Let's look at another published adventure, Dungeon of the mad mage:
Level 15:
Enemies with significant condition immunities, Legendary Resistance or Magic Resistance: Ghost, Death Tyrant, Living Unseen Servant, Adult White Dragon, Stone Golem, Vampire, Nycaloth
Enemies without those things: Lava Children Skeletons, Drow, Mephits, Mage (and the Mage that is has counterspell)
Level 16:
Enemies With: Crystal Golems, Adult Red Dragon, Mind Flayers
Enemies without: various Githyanki, Young Red Dragons
Level 17:
Enemies with: Neothilid, Mind Flayers, Scaladar
Enemies without: Githyanki, Orogs, Troglodyte, Vetran, Dueregar, Grimlocks
Level 18:
Enemies with: Bronze Shadow Dragon, Death Knight, Vampires, Shadow Assasins
Enemies without: Vampire Spawn, Swarm of Rats, cloaker
Of note, there are things that don't have these, but you should roll over most of those creatures at this level and you are not using your powerful spells for them.
So... you are making my point for me?
I mean, you are literally sitting here telling me that are level 15 the party is facing SKELETONS, CR 1/4 skeletons. Level 18 has the very scary CR 5 Vampire spawn, surely a terrifying fight.
Heck, you are listing CR 5 Mindflayers as something with "significant condition immunities, Legendary Resistance or Magic Resistance". Yes, they have magic resistance, they are also melee monsters (other than their mind blast they have no ranged options innately), a strength of +0 and a DEx of +1. Even with advantage, Web from a 17th level wizard should have a DC of 19, they are just not going to be able to resist that.
I mean seriously, that level 17 list doesn't have a single monster with a CR higher than 10. So... why does the legendary resistance matter? You keep acting like the party is only ever going to face foes with high saves and legendary resistance, then offer a list that showcases that the majority of enemies... won't have those things.
If you are not immune to restrained and you fail the save. Web is a good spell, I am not saying it isn't. But it is highly situational and at high level being restrained is not nearly as bad for an enemy as it is at low level.
Wut? How is "Not being able to move, all attacks against you have advantage, all of your attacks have disadvantage, you have disadvantage on dex saves"... not very bad for a lot of enemies?
A high level Rune Knight with athletics proficiency can fairly reliably put a huge Dragon prone and grappled in a single turn. As far as conditions, this is generally better than being restrained in a web, the Dragon can't use Legendaries to stop it because it is a contest and the Dragon needs to make a strength check which he will likely fail to try and get out of it. It also takes effect immediately instead of waiting until the Dragon's turn and the RK can move the Dragon wherever he wants and he does not need to retain concentration.
To compare these:
Against Web an Adult Blue Dragon has a 40% chance to fail a DC18 Dex save and a 50% chance to make the DC 18 Strength Check if he fails and that is if he chooses not to use a legendary.
The same Dragon has over a 90% chance of failing at least 2 of 3 strength contests against a +10 with advantage. Once his is grappled and proned the chance he can break free with an action is less than 20%. He can't use a Legendary against this either. To add incult to injury over half the time the Fighter will do it in 2 of his 3 attacks and be able to pound him with advantage using his 3rd attack.
So... 40% chance to restrain the dragon, preventing all melee attacks against the party. For the cost of a 2nd level spell, at 17th level. Which then would necessitate a full action and no attacks from the dragon to have a 50/50 shot of breaking free (can't legendary resistance that).
In exchange, the fighter has triggered their bonus action which is much more limited, gave up two of their three attacks, is locked in melee with the dragon, and can only attack if they have a hand free. This means that they are not using a shield, so, without assuming magical weapons they have an AC of 18. Adult Blue Dragons have +12 to hit, and even if they still have disadvantage they only need to roll a 6, on three attacks. Add in all the ways the dragon has to knock the fighter prone or blind them... the dragon can even that fight up pretty easily. And in exchange, he can't move, but he also is harder to target with ranged attacks, meaning everyone has to get into melee with him. Which means he can do the same things to them that he can do to the fighter.
Sure, the dragon is going to lose the fight. But it is CR 16 vs a level 18 party. Of course it should lose that fight!
Also, sidenote, +7 vs +10 with advantage is rough for them, but I'm not sure it is 90% chance to fail. And, if you just give the dragon athletics proficiency that becomes +12 vs +10 with advantage, and that is much more even.
I am never a footnote, but niether do I get jealous and upset because someone else has a stronger character. You be You, let me be me.
I can play any class RAW to 20th level and be effective, why should I worry about if another character at the table is better than me?
I mean it is a team game anyway, having someone else who is more powerful makes the entire party more powerful.
If casters are always, by design, more powerful. What is the point of the martial characters?
It depends on what you mean by caster.
I have not seen full casters take over in 10 years of playing 5E and I see as many non-full casters now as I did in the beginning even though the gap at most levels has widened
If by "caster" you are including the Monk, Rogue or Fighter that gets a spell through a race option, then sure casters have taken over the game, but I don't see a problem with that as lots of people are still playing those non-caster classes.
Also you seem to be ignoring that this is very specific to level and class. Wizards are overall the strongest characters in the game, but they are not the strongest at every level.
So what? Being weaker at one specific level doesn't mean that they aren't stronger the rest of the time. And, again, the problem is generally indicated at higher levels, not things like level 3 or 4 where casters are much less capable.
I think this is just petty. It is pouting. It is like playing a game of basketball with your friends and being angry that your teamate can dunk and you can't.
No, it isn't like that. Because even if they can dunk, a basketball team doesn't have dedicated roles. They aren't just better than me, they are better than me at all the things I built my character to be good at. Simply because of their access to magic. And my only solution currently is to either work on homebrew, or alter my character concept by getting magic.
It isn't petty or pouting to be frustrated that the game isn't better designed to make this less likely to happen.
Why when feats are available?
Because they are optional.