Dragonborn in Faerun

Al2O3 said:

As someone who stated playing during the 4e era and have yet to hear any reason why I should even take a look at anything older, I can tell you that playing a 7ft tall creature with scales and a draconic face very much appeals to me.

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Really? Okay, let me break this down for you.

If they are going to exist at all, if you have Dragon-people they could be... nay, should be this:




But that isn't a dragonborn. That is actually menacing, actually formidable, actually... well... possible to be taken seriously. Dragonborn are this




I mean, besides being ugly as sin, exactly what part of that says dragon to you? Its just a weird furry fetishes fantasy. In fact, even the furry fetish version would probably retain a few more actual draconic characteristics. They are almost entirely absent-- and not because the changes make sense from a narrative perspective, but simply because they felt that if they had tails, wings and claws they would be forced to convey those aspects mechanically which would unbalance the race.... and pretty much everything about their culture is also designed for fitting a particular mechanical niche rather than being logical, interesting, dynamic or adding anything whatsoever to the story.... they just wanted to randomly add dragon people while also doing everything possible to drain any sort of impact or threat or interest to a thing such as dragon-people existing... Try to take the most powerful well-known creatures in the game, embody it into a humanoid form and then somehow make them as mundane, uninteresting and undisruptive as possible.... which just serves to make dragons in general a lot more laughable and mundane.
When the whole design of a race is about the mechanics rather than generating any sort of narrative interest, it really doesn't belong in a story.

They shouldn't even be in Faerun because they make everything worse by their inclusion. At least as long as one insists that their inclusion be done precisely as it was originally conceptualized.

So why can't your dragonborn look like that? Nothing is really preventing you to fluff it up like that.

[MENTION=6777454]TheHobgoblin[/MENTION] I think we can agree that male and female dragonborn should probably be as similar to each other as male and female dragons, and I have no idea how one would distinguish them from each other.

These images are more along the lines of how I imagine dragonborn (and I would not argue against someone claiming the first one to be female).



The one you posted with a desert background made me think of devils or vultures, with even less to remind of dragons than even 4e/5e style dragonborn. So the art is of varying quality regardless of what version of dragonborn we are talking about. I can agree with the first image being awesome, but I personally dislike the humanoid dragon with tail thing. The wings can be neat however, and I must admit that I like the versions with wings displayed in the picture below:


My main issue with wings on D&D characters however is the apparent impracticality of wearing heavy armor along with the wings. So just from a roleplaying standpoint I prefer my characters to default to no wings. I still like playing a large menacing humaniod reptile with scales and a large weapon.

Regarding the concept and worldbuilding I would say that those don't really match between Forgotten Realms and Netheril. In the POL setting the dragonborn were originally very much the willing servants of dragons, while in the Forgotten Realms they are self-liberated and clan-loving former slaves of dragons. The reason I like the FR version so much is also the well-developed culture and society that Erin M Evans has fleshed out. The major cultural similarity between the original concept and the FR version is the strong sense of Honour.

I should also state for the record that my interest in dragonborn since the release of 5e is purely the narrative interest, not the mechanical parts (because in 5e I NEED my characters to have darkvision).

KahlessNestor said:

Just curious, those that know previous editions, where dragonborn came from conceptually. 4e s3ems to have originally made them for Nerath, th POL setting. Obviously they were popular enough to find a place in Faerun. Not sure what the complaint there is, though, since Faerun was always a kitchen sink setting. And dragonborn don't have to be in YOUR FR campaign, so not sure on your complaints there, either.

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Actually, the dragonborn originated in the 3e book Races of Dragon, which started adapting Dragonborn and Spellscales and half-dragons into a distinct identity instead of just others. Its the direction the game, as a whole, was moving towards before 4e.

I find it equal parts amusing and frustrating at how people blow up at 4e sometimes. 4e, for all its claimed changes, actually didn't introduce a lot of the changes beyond the AEDU system. So much was taken from Eberron and other later 3.5 era books and merged into the default setting. Even the dragonborn v. tiefling war was inspired by Eberron's early history of dragons versus fiends.

Either way, I don't really care about everyone else's edition complaints. I like the modern dragonborn, though, to be honest, I'm a bit disappointed at the mechanics. Dragonbreath really could use a boost, and we could really stand to see some racial variants here.

I have nothing against the Dragonborn being in the Realms, but I was saddened that there was no focus on the reptillian races that were part of the setting from 3.5 in the SCAG. Not much on the yuan-ti, the asabi, the firenewts and the khaasta. I can understand why there is not much focus on the asabi or the khaasta (the planescape intinerations were great), but the firenewts are in canon, held up as the embodiment of flame by the church of Kossuth and are found in most areas of the realms where there is volcanic activity, and are more widespread and populous than the ghostwise halflings. The yuan-ti had entire nations under their control (covertly or directly) in 3.5, and more could have been written on them.

I have more of a problem with them being in Dark Sun, where the dray were created by the undead dragon king Dregoth as his dream race, in the image of a full dragon (which Dregoth was on the verge of becoming before the other sorcerer kings killed him). They had their own stats and looked like replicas of a full dragon. There are no chromatic or metallic dragons in the setting - just bestial drakes, that correspond to the elemental and paraelemental planes and in some cases look nothing like dragons, and becoming a fully fledged dragon means becoming a 20th level wizard, a 20th level Psion and then undergoing a 10 stage process that ends becoming a full dragon.

In 4th edition, the Dragonborn looked the same as the ones found in other settings, though at least it was implied that was the reason they were expelled from New Guistenal. But considering just how menacing the dray looked as the second generation that were the success story, and how pitiful they looked as the first, the runts that were cast out by their dread king and looked upon their creator with rage, but still hoped that one day Dregoth would find it in his heart to forgive their imperfect existance and welcome them back, I find the dragonborn a lot less appealing than the bestial dray (and the dray rode giant psionic bugs, which is always a bonus).

I just find the dragonborn bland, which is a shame considering the types of dragons, and how much they could vary in appearance. A sleek, almost feline white dragonborn or a skull faced black one, or maybe a one descended from crystaline dragons that had gems in its flesh. Ones that had one human arm and one reptillian arm, ones that had almost human faces - there is so much potential variation.

I like the idea of dragonborn, but when compared to the equivalents in the Dark Sun (dray), Scarred Lands (tatsuri and their take on kobolds) and the Dragonlance (the draconians) settings, I just feel like there is so much potential. I would love to see skull-faced dragonborn, or ones that are a mix of different characteristics.

Read Ashes of the Tyrant by Erin M. Evan which is out now, you get a much better view of the Dragonborn (which is not what they call themselves, its what humans call them) of Tymanther a Faerun Dragonborn nation.

From reading those posts it makes me sorta interested in reading a story about them. I always thought they were kinda cool, but until now wasn't particularly interested in their society as the setting for stories.

What do their cities look like. For a long time I always imagined them living underground in stone structures not unlike dwarves. Them being dragons and all. But I'm pretty sure that's not the case, since that idea is never suggested anywhere.

In Returned Abeir some free dragonborn lived underground (safer from dragons), but Tymanther is different. They have a militaristic bent, so I believe their cities are fairly solidly fortified. Otjer than that, not sure. Apparently The Brotherhood of the Gryphon series has done some stuff with Tymanther too and dragonborn society.

n00b f00 said:

From reading those posts it makes me sorta interested in reading a story about them. I always thought they were kinda cool, but until now wasn't particularly interested in their society as the setting for stories.

What do their cities look like. For a long time I always imagined them living underground in stone structures not unlike dwarves. Them being dragons and all. But I'm pretty sure that's not the case, since that idea is never suggested anywhere.

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They live inside a large pyramid with catacombs under it. Or well, that is the main city/fortress, they also have villages and homesteads with sheep, probably not very much unlike the Dalelands etc.

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Well there you go, I wasn't too far off. Thanks guys.