D&D 5E "The" Lich?

Al2O3 · Mar 12, 2016

Ristamar said:
The ascension occurred during the transition from 2e to 3e.

Technically, he was stopped from reaching his ultimate goal. I won't post spoilers here; the plot/summary is easy to locate if you're interested.

Thanks! I was mostly curious about the out of story timeline to get a better idea of who might regard Vecna mostly as god or mostly as lich. I guess the spoilers involve Kas, the Sword of Kas and the body parts of Vecna somehow (as described in DMG).

Radaceus · Mar 12, 2016

Other than Vecna...
an argument could be put forth for the Witch King of Angmar as being the forerunner to the idea...

there is the postulation that Gardner Fox's protagonist Afgorkon, of the book 'Sword of the Sorceror' is THE lich whom inspired Gary

ruleslawyer · Mar 12, 2016

Ristamar said:
The ascension occurred during the transition from 2e to 3e.

Technically, he was stopped from reaching his ultimate goal. I won't post spoilers here; the plot/summary is easy to locate if you're interested.

Nope; not the case.

In Vecna Lives, which is a 2e adventure, Vecna is ALREADY a demigod.

Vecna Lives said:
But the history of the artifacts is not all that remains to be told of Vecna. His will, evil and perverted, was too powerful to be destroyed when his body perished. For untold centuries it drifted, refusing to surrender. Strangely, small traces of power flowed to it, the energy of worshipers on Oerth. Even one as depraved as Vecna attracted those who revered and adored him.
Gradually, Vecna’s cult grew and he assumed the powers of a demigod.

GMMichael · Mar 12, 2016

Elfcrusher said:
What's the world of storytelling come to when "iconic" means "invented by Wizards of the Coast or TSR"?

Double check the OP. But I'll admit, there are times when I wonder if I've logged into ENWorld: D&D News and Reviews.

As for THE Lich, for me there can be only one:

steeldragons · Mar 12, 2016

The body parts of Vecna (and Sword of Kas) go back to artifacts of the first 1e DMG. So Vecna had been understood as some long gone uber-lich (whose essence still lived on through his eye and hand) since at least that time.

I believe making him a "god" was a WotC construction, which would place that alteration at, earliest, 3e.

Should have "replied with quote." This was in response to @Al203 :

Thanks! I was mostly curious about the out of story timeline to get a better idea of who might regard Vecna mostly as god or mostly as lich. I guess the spoilers involve Kas, the Sword of Kas and the body parts of Vecna somehow (as described in DMG).

Ristamar · Mar 12, 2016

ruleslawyer said:
Nope; not the case.

In Vecna Lives, which is a 2e adventure, Vecna is ALREADY a demigod.

Fair point. I was referring to his full deity status.

The Greyhawk demigods never struck me as particularly god-like.

Beleriphon · Mar 12, 2016

I'm a fan of Larloch personally as far as the whole lich thing goes. I mean he rules Warlock's crypt, and according to most Forgotten Realms resources is actually more powerful than Szass Tam.

Ancalagon · Mar 12, 2016

Beleriphon said:
I'm a fan of Larloch personally as far as the whole lich thing goes. I mean he rules Warlock's crypt, and according to most Forgotten Realms resources is actually more powerful than Szass Tam.

He's more powerful in raw term, and has several other liches under his control/influence. But Szass has a lot more temporal power.

I think Larloch is a great character, but I don't think he should be the "classic in the Monster Manual" lich - he's more powerful than the baseline. Szass is an "averagely" powerful lich (with the exception of his temporal power).

MonsterEnvy · Mar 12, 2016

steeldragons said:
The body parts of Vecna (and Sword of Kas) go back to artifacts of the first 1e DMG. So Vecna had been understood as some long gone uber-lich (whose essence still lived on through his eye and hand) since at least that time.

I believe making him a "god" was a WotC construction, which would place that alteration at, earliest, 3e.

Should have "replied with quote." This was in response to @Al203 :

He was a Demigod since Vecna lives which came out during 1990, 10 years later Die Vecna Die the final 2e adventure came out and Vecna became a Greater God during it. But his plan was stopped just as he started rewriting reality to become the master of all things. His defeat lead to a large power loss at the end of the adventure and he was brought down to the level of a Lesser God. (Which was a still a net gain for him as he was no longer stuck in Ravenloft, and had gone from Demigod to full god.)

ExploderWizard · Mar 12, 2016

Henry said:
Asberdies always struck me as a silly encounter - superpowerful lich just sitting in a one-chamber cavern, with his treasure pile, waiting to... Um, fornicate up a party of adventurers. He was like a magic-wielding undead bear hibernating in his den...

That's EXACTLY why he is so dangerous.

Adventurer Soon-Dead : "Hey guys we're pretty tired. Lets check out this little secluded side cave and try to get some rest."

Adventurer Gonnabiteit: " I don't know. We haven't really checked it out yet."

Adventurer Soon-Dead : " So what? I mean, how bad could it be? Its not like there is mega-powerful lich in there just chillin and waiting eat our souls the moment we walk in or anything."

Adventurer Gonnabiteit: " Heh. Yeah I guess you're right. Lets do this." :lol:

D&D 5E "The" Lich?

Al2O3

Explorer

Radaceus

Adventurer

ruleslawyer

Registered User

GMMichael

Guide of Modos

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons

Ristamar

Adventurer

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon

MonsterEnvy

Legend

ExploderWizard

Hero

Similar Threads