WotC James Wyatt is on the Dungeons & Dragons Team Again

FitzTheRuke · Mar 10, 2021

I think one of the sad things when it comes to 4e (there are quite a few) is that the edition didn't need to shoe-horn every thing into every setting. 4e would have been very easy to say "this setting has options A, C, & E but not B, D, or G. F is around but rare - ask your DM." It would have been easier to do that than in any prior edition, and yet... they chose to try to force every world to have all the options.

...until Dark Sun, of course, which proved that they never should have done it with the Realms or Eberron. (Though even Dark Sun they put things in that didn't need to be there, IIRC).

It was just sooo unnecessary. And it harmed the reputation of the edition as much or even more than the mechanics did.

dave2008 · Mar 10, 2021

Scribe said:
It's not about 5e being some Messiah. 5e only looks so good (imo) because people didn't like what 4e did.

I'd still go back to 3.5, as 5e is not the second coming of Christ, it's only seen as so much better (imo) because of how bad 4e was received in comparison.

If that doesn't make sense, sorry.

Of course some people really liked what they did in 4e

Personally I go back to 1e and 4e, and 5e seems to be a fairly good mix of those two. I don't really care bout 2e and 3e much - because I didn't play those editions!

Scribe · Mar 10, 2021

dave2008 said:
Of course some people really liked what they did in 4e

Personally I go back to 1e and 4e, and 5e seems to be a fairly good mix of those two. I don't really care bout 2e and 3e much - because I didn't play those editions!

100%

I'm just trying to offer an explanation for why 5e may have a better perception than some would warrant.

Tales and Chronicles · Mar 10, 2021

FitzTheRuke said:
I think one of the sad things when it comes to 4e (there are quite a few) is that the edition didn't need to shoe-horn every thing into every setting. 4e would have been very easy to say "this setting has options A, C, & E but not B, D, or G. F is around but rare - ask your DM." It would have been easier to do that than in any prior edition, and yet... they chose to try to force every world to have all the options.

...until Dark Sun, of course, which proved that they never should have done it with the Realms or Eberron. (Though even Dark Sun they put things in that didn't need to be there, IIRC).

It was just sooo unnecessary. And it harmed the reputation of the edition as much or even more than the mechanics did.

This x1000.

The lore behind 4e was the best IMHO, but it was the best...for the Nentir Vale.

I a huge fan of the Dawn War pantheon and the world Axis, but I tend to use it only in NV. Same with the Turathi tieflings and Dragonborn. I find adding all those incredible things to settings that already had those niches filled was unnecessary.

Azzy · Mar 11, 2021

Scribe said:
From my perspective...no. I think 5e gets more shine because its not 4e, but I'd go back to 3.5....

Meh. 5e is what I wish 3e had been.

Kobold Avenger said:
4e had this intention to build on the game as this tactical combat RPG.

That really started with 2e's Players Option: Combat & Tactics and then ramped up with 3e and 3.5e. 4e just gave into the Dark Side in that regard. I've never really cared for D&D (or other TTRPG) as a tactical combat pursuit. Just not my thing.

Mind of tempest · Mar 11, 2021

Azzy said:
Meh. 5e is what I wish 3e had been.

That really started with 2e's Players Option: Combat & Tactics and then ramped up with 3e and 3.5e. 4e just gave into the Dark Side in that regard. I've never really cared for D&D (or other TTRPG) as a tactical combat pursuit. Just not my thing.

I would like more options for combat for the none caster as they can get super samey but building entirely around that would make it not feel like a world and I want a world with the craziness that brings.

SkidAce · Mar 11, 2021

Aldarc said:
Not always. Not anymore. It's time to update your D&D lore. It's two editions out-of-date.

This ain't gonna happen.

edit: this sounded harsher than I meant, basically I like the old cambions and tieflings, so I am planning on keeping them that way.

Azzy · Mar 11, 2021

Mind of tempest said:
I would like more options for combat for the none caster as they can get super samey but building entirely around that would make it not feel like a world and I want a world with the craziness that brings.

I agree.

Aldarc · Mar 11, 2021

vincegetorix said:
This x1000.

The lore behind 4e was the best IMHO, but it was the best...for the Nentir Vale.

I a huge fan of the Dawn War pantheon and the world Axis, but I tend to use it only in NV. Same with the Turathi tieflings and Dragonborn. I find adding all those incredible things to settings that already had those niches filled was unnecessary.

I think that Forgotten Realms and Eberron are designed to handle 4e tieflings and dragonborn, as the are probably the two foremost D&D kitchen sink settings, but not necessarily the way that WotC handled settings during that time, particularly the Spellplague. There are probably other ways that they could have done it, but I think that WotC was under the impression (much as Marvel and DC during this time) that settings constantly needed a big "event" to shake things up. As a result, Eberron mostly remained untouched. Dark Sun still got a few injections of things that didn't quite fit, but it also got IMHO one of the greatest improvements over the original Dark Sun: it pulled the trigger on divine classes, including the cleric!

As was discussed earlier, someday, I would love for WotC to revisit the Nentir Vale setting. But I'm not sure if the writers "get" the Nentir Vale, particularly after the Raven Queen retcon or [the Unspeakable One's] Nenir Vale streaming campaign.

SkidAce said:
This ain't gonna happen.

edit: this sounded harsher than I meant, basically I like the old cambions and tieflings, so I am planning on keeping them that way.

It's your table.

Paul Farquhar · Mar 11, 2021

What happens in the Forgotten Realms between 2nd and 5th edition is tieflings go from being incredibly rare to being far more common. To see this look at Baldur's Gate 2 (2nd edition FR, frozen in aspic). There is a tiefling companion, but he comes from Sigil, and has to explain what a tiefling is because they are pretty much unknown in Amn at that time. Note that his appearance reflects both the diversity in 2nd edition tieflings, and the fact that he had to use a half elf model in the game.

Moving on, but again looking at computer games, since they preserve the status of the game at the time they where written. The next appearance of a tiefling in the Forgotten realms is Neeshka in NWN2 (3.5 edition). She is an FR native, but still unusual enough to have to explain what she is and face a good deal of persecution. It is implied that her grandfather is a pit fiend named Mephasm.

That is all in the past, but 5e does not delete the past, it still happened. It's certainly plausible that Asmodeus was responsible for the vast increase in the number of tieflings in the FR, and thus a great many are connected to him, but that doesn't delete the small number that have different origins.

WotC James Wyatt is on the Dungeons & Dragons Team Again

FitzTheRuke

Legend

dave2008

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Scribe

Legend

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix

Azzy

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Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics

SkidAce

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Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ

Aldarc

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Paul Farquhar

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