FitzTheRuke
Legend
Should I level Malek down or make a new character? I almost want to make a Barbarian and just throw myself at him like some players I know...
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D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.
- Thread starter MonsterEnvy
- Start date
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Either is fine.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
Flamestrike
Legend
So your position is:
If a creatures reaction has a trigger, the creature can take that reaction when that trigger occurs, even if that creature is totally unaware of the trigger occurring.
So why is Counterspell different?
And also this one:
''Counterspell requires you to see a creature casting a spell. Nothing to perceive means no counter.''
Th reason Counterspell doesnt work against Subtle spells is you cant see the caster casting a spell and with nothing to perceive, there is no trigger.
Why is Counterspell different? Because the spell says so. One of the conditions of regular Counterepell (not Vecna's version) is that the caster see the spell being cast.
PS. it's been requested we stop this rules discussion in this thread and open a new one if we wish to pursue it further. Personally, I think the discussion is played out, but if we do want to pursue it further, it shouldn't be in this thread.
Edit: @Flamestrike , I'll reply to your below post here, since I've already used the space but I will not clutter the thread further because of the request not to.
You'll note in your link, Crawford EXPRESSLY says "here's how I'd rule..." That seems an admission (by him) that, that's not what it actually says but he wants to be logical and that's how he'd do it.
Regardless, I have already said (probably two or three times) it seems clear that the writers intended Vecna's ability TO BE SPECIAL and that he just KNOWS a spell is being cast regardless of outward indications. So IMO even IF the trigger must be perceived, Vecna meets that condition.
and, IN THIS CASE, I don't care if the interpretation is "RAW" (that Vecna just knows a spell is being cast). I'm perfectly happy having it be a special case just for Vecna.
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Flamestrike
Legend
@Mort
First dot point of Mage Slayer feat:
This is how its supposed to play out w Subtle spell:
Explain the inconsistency here. Surely applyin this to Dread Counter, Vecna cant use it against Subtle spell.
Edit: Just saw that. No need for a new thread, but this will be my last post. Read the above in context of your 'no need to see the target' distinction you're trying to make though, and why (according to JC) it's wrong.
First dot point of Mage Slayer feat:
- When a creature within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.
This is how its supposed to play out w Subtle spell:
Explain the inconsistency here. Surely applyin this to Dread Counter, Vecna cant use it against Subtle spell.
Edit: Just saw that. No need for a new thread, but this will be my last post. Read the above in context of your 'no need to see the target' distinction you're trying to make though, and why (according to JC) it's wrong.
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Final Word on it as the thread maker. My ruling is that Vecna does not need to see the casting just the creature and he knows. The wording on his ability is different from normal Counterspell which does require that, and Vecna is stated to be able to tell what people are casting just by looking. So for this experiment and my own games. He can counter even a subtle spell cause he’s just that good.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
I started the other thread:
www.enworld.org
Because I really don't see much difference -- Vecna still has to see the creature casting...
D&D 5E - Vecna's Dread Counterspell vs. Counterspell -- What's the Diff?
From the Vecna Battle Thread, here we go: and.... Frankly, other than the fact Dread Counterspell doesn't seem to actually be a spell, I don't really see the difference. Anyone want to continue chiming in?
www.enworld.org
Because I really don't see much difference -- Vecna still has to see the creature casting...
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
I'll make up a PC tonight, or since I have time I can run Vecna if other people want to play this next simulation??
Flamestrike
Legend
Fair call, its your game. I could see myself giving him the same ability.
FWIW, I reckon I could pretty reliably take Vecna out with just 2 PCs (a Fighter, and an Artificer), both 12th level.
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