WotC Dragonlance: Everything You Need For Shadow of the Dragon Queen

Stormonu · Oct 21, 2022

Micah Sweet said:
See, to me the 5e conversion that Dragonlance nexus did in Tasslehoffs Pockets of Everything is more than good enough. I'm very glad I grabbed that before they pulled it; they said they're going to re-release it on DMsguild, but I'm afraid they might compromise it to align with WotC's work.

Yeah, I grabbed that too. I may end up using Tasslehoff's as my base for 5E Dragonlance, but I like having the option of having a new 5E adventure/campaign in WotC's offering. Besides, there's nothing wrong with taking the best of either product.

Jaeger · Oct 21, 2022

R_J_K75 said:
Interesting because I never picked up on this in 1E/2E. Battle Systems seemed kind of clunky from reading it and seemed that it took a bit of commitment to implement it into your AD&D games, so we never bothered. ICR exactly if Combat & Tactics included a mass combat system or not but we did implement some of the rules from that book for a while but even those were hard to pull off if you had a few casual players in the group. A streamlined mass combat system included in the core books would be nice as I think the reason, we (and probably many others) never used them, is because they were always another set of mechanics added onto the system instead of being correctly built into the core from the start.

Neither did I. I had to have it pointed out to me - but once you know it's there, you see how it is implemented throughout the system.

Gygax never explicitly spells it out. He just assumed a certain level of wargaming background, and that 'people' would see what was "obvious" LOL... That, combined with a sometimes obtuse writing style, ensured that it went over the heads of most everyone that bought the game.

Not that AD&D1e didn't have it's share of cumbersome rules, but once you recognize what Gygax did with the ability to scale to a1:10 or 1:20 - it would actually be quite straightforward to do in any d20 based design provided it was implemented from the ground up.

Kai Lord · Oct 21, 2022

Jaeger said:
Neither did I. I had to have it pointed out to me - but once you know it's there, you see how it is implemented throughout the system.

Gygax never explicitly spells it out. He just assumed a certain level of wargaming background, and that 'people' would see what was "obvious" LOL... That, combined with a sometimes obtuse writing style, ensured that it went over the heads of most everyone that bought the game.

Not that AD&D1e didn't have it's share of cumbersome rules, but once you recognize what Gygax did with the ability to scale to a1:10 or 1:20 - it would actually be quite straightforward to do in any d20 based design provided it was implemented from the ground up.

As someone who never played the original Battlesystem rules could you clarify this further?

Are you saying that all BS really was was just "have one orc battle one knight and then multiple those results by 100?" So each round instead of one orc or knight falling they'd be going down 100 at a time? Or is it not quite that simple, lol.

Ralif Redhammer · Oct 21, 2022

Maxperson said:
I'm pretty sure I had multiple demon lords and arch devils in different rooms in that dungeon. Like they were all hanging out on whatever world it was sipping tea or something.

This is why I doubt we'll be seeing more Greyhawk beyond Ghosts of Saltmarsh. It seems Wizards can't release a new version without alienating old fans, and can't release an old version without alienating new fans.

And to be sure, there are way more new fans than old out there. It is a given that Wizards will have to make changes to the setting to appeal to the larger population of gamers today.

I am ever so thankful and excited that we're getting Dragonlance in two months rather than something in Exandria (nothing against Critical Role and whatnot, I just have way more of an emotional response to Dragonlance).

mamba said:
I don’t know, to me it looks like there are a few people on here that just hate WotC and make ridiculous claims / accusations no matter what, facts (of which there aren’t all that many since the module is still over a month away) be damned

Not sure if these are OSR fans or what their stance is, but I am also not that interested in finding out.

Maxperson · Oct 21, 2022

Ralif Redhammer said:
I am ever so thankful and excited that we're getting Dragonlance in two months rather than something in Exandria (nothing against Critical Role and whatnot, I just have way more of an emotional response to Dragonlance).

My skepticism is based on their statements, which may prove to be different once the setting is released, and the size of the product. 244 pages to give is 6 small intro adventures, one big war adventure, and a setting equates to setting lore equal to or worse than Spelljammer.

I get more use out of my 2e Spelljammer products for 5e than the 5e setting.

If this is going to be the size of their setting products, I'd rather they not release the old settings and ruin them.

R_J_K75 · Oct 21, 2022

Jaeger said:
Gygax never explicitly spells it out. He just assumed a certain level of wargaming background, and that 'people' would see what was "obvious" LOL... That, combined with a sometimes obtuse writing style, ensured that it went over the heads of most everyone that bought the game.

I was probably 9 or 10 when I got my hands on the 1E AD&D core books, so me and my friends had a hard time making heads or tails of most of what EGG was trying to say due to his writing style let alone pick up on an obscure inferred reference to mass combat. At that age our system of mass combat was just killing everything in the MM1 & MM2 we thought was cool and walking away with 8 billion gold pieces and 90% of the magical items in the DMG. Eventually we saw the folly of our ways.

Jaeger said:
it would actually be quite straightforward to do in any d20 based design provided it was implemented from the ground up.

I agree it shouldn't be too hard to make a simple mass combat system that's part of the core rules and needs to happen in the next iteration of D&D. I'm sure this could be said for a lot of "optional" rules.

Micah Sweet · Oct 21, 2022

Ralif Redhammer said:
View attachment 264477

This is why I doubt we'll be seeing more Greyhawk beyond Ghosts of Saltmarsh. It seems Wizards can't release a new version without alienating old fans, and can't release an old version without alienating new fans.

And to be sure, there are way more new fans than old out there. It is a given that Wizards will have to make changes to the setting to appeal to the larger population of gamers today.

I am ever so thankful and excited that we're getting Dragonlance in two months rather than something in Exandria (nothing against Critical Role and whatnot, I just have way more of an emotional response to Dragonlance).

My emotional response to Dragonlance is actually the problem here, so it seems.

MonsterEnvy · Oct 21, 2022

Jaeger said:
Except for the fact that in my opinion; their existing creative track record of many years 're-imaginig' older IP like Nu-Ravenloft, and the introduction of the new setting Radiant Citadel, very much failed to impress to put it mildly.

In my opinion however Radiant Citadel was cool and Nu Ravenloft was better than the old version and I say that as a fan of the old one.

MonsterEnvy · Oct 21, 2022

Maxperson said:
My skepticism is based on their statements, which may prove to be different once the setting is released, and the size of the product. 244 pages to give is 6 small intro adventures, one big war adventure, and a setting equates to setting lore equal to or worse than Spelljammer.

I get more use out of my 2e Spelljammer products for 5e than the 5e setting.

If this is going to be the size of their setting products, I'd rather they not release the old settings and ruin them.

It’s not a setting book, it’s not going to go over the entire setting.

Also new Spelljammer did not ruin the setting, it was just a bit underbaked and could have used more details.

Maxperson · Oct 21, 2022

MonsterEnvy said:
It’s not a setting book, it’s not going to go over the entire setting.

The OP quotes say it's a setting book.

"Dragonlance: Introduces the Dragonlance setting with a focus on the War of the Lance and an overview of what players and DMs need to run adventures during this world spanning conflict."

And notes from the video...

D&D's setting for war
Set in eastern Solamnia

MonsterEnvy said:
Also new Spelljammer did not ruin the setting, it was just a bit underbaked and could have used more details.

Calling it a bit underbaked is like calling a pile of sand a hill. At the words per page in the setting portion, it needed 4x the number of pages it got at a minimum.

WotC Dragonlance: Everything You Need For Shadow of the Dragon Queen

Stormonu

Legend

Jaeger

That someone better

Kai Lord

Hero

Ralif Redhammer

Legend

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

R_J_K75

Legend

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast

MonsterEnvy

Legend

MonsterEnvy

Legend

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

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