Level Up (A5E) Why is non-magical flying so limited for PCs?

Stalker0 said:

Because unless a DM forces in flying and/or ranged attacks into every combat, the second one starts with just melee monsters (which is a good portion of the MM, and includes a lot of animals and things that many DMs would consider standard fare in outdoor encounters), then the flying PC is invincible.

Click to expand...

Faolyn said:

Well, why not include flying or ranged attacks into every combat? As I said, there's no reason why your humanoid foes shouldn't have ranged attacks. And if you have a lot of PCs flying around, they're going to attract attention from other flying creatures. Unless your player is specifically playing a flying creature in order to be invincible, then they're going to expect to be attacked. And if they're playing a flying creature specifically to be invincible, they're munchkinning/power gaming/whatevering and you can target them with impunity.

Also, while flying, they're not going to be able to Help their allies, provide flanking bonuses, take advantage of cover, or do any of the other things that grounded PCs can do.

But here's another thing: going by RAW (IIRC, at least), you can move then attack, attack then move, move then attack then move some more, but only specific maneuvers and (maybe) feats let you attack while moving.

None of the flying heritages, to my knowledge, can hover. And while the rules don't call this out specifically, I'd say that means they are always moving while flying. So at the least, if they want to stay up in the air and pepper their opponents with their own ranged attacks and spells, it's completely logical to have them roll with some sort of penalty.

Click to expand...

Micah Sweet said:

And who says they're "invincible"? Assuming such is a big reason why fear of PC flight persists.

Click to expand...

Faolyn said:

Well, why not include flying or ranged attacks into every combat? As I said, there's no reason why your humanoid foes shouldn't have ranged attacks. And if you have a lot of PCs flying around, they're going to attract attention from other flying creatures. Unless your player is specifically playing a flying creature in order to be invincible, then they're going to expect to be attacked. And if they're playing a flying creature specifically to be invincible, they're munchkinning/power gaming/whatevering and you can target them with impunity.

Also, while flying, they're not going to be able to Help their allies, provide flanking bonuses, take advantage of cover, or do any of the other things that grounded PCs can do.

But here's another thing: going by RAW (IIRC, at least), you can move then attack, attack then move, move then attack then move some more, but only specific maneuvers and (maybe) feats let you attack while moving.

None of the flying heritages, to my knowledge, can hover. And while the rules don't call this out specifically, I'd say that means they are always moving while flying. So at the least, if they want to stay up in the air and pepper their opponents with their own ranged attacks and spells, it's completely logical to have them roll with some sort of penalty.

Click to expand...

Faolyn said:

Well, why not include flying or ranged attacks into every combat?

Click to expand...

Thomas Shey said:

Because at least some of the time, its right. And its more likely to be right for other reasons in the outdoor environments that already benefit it most.

Click to expand...

Thomas Shey said:

Because you don't want to, and it limits your encounter setups. Does there need to be a better reason?

Click to expand...

Micah Sweet said:

I think so, yes. Better than imposing arbitrary limits on PCs that beings with similar sources of flight don’t have.

Click to expand...

Stalker0 said:

So it’s better to impose arbitrary limitations thst a dm has to include ranged attacking creatures in their outside settings…even when that wouldn’t make any sense for your game?

Click to expand...