D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

tetrasodium · Apr 5, 2024

FitzTheRuke said:
You don't have to say it if the player in question is familiar with the game and how you run it. If they're not one or the other of those things, it would be kinder of you to mention it. I play a LOT with people who are either unfamiliar with the game itself or how I run it. Many of them expect things to "just happen" where I prefer that there's (in the very least) some story behind how it happens. I find that it works best to quickly get everyone on the same page, if only for clarity.

Or in other words, I'd probably say the latter, myself. YMMV.

This kinda feels like it's edging into a lose/lose basket of telling someone how to play their character stacked against taking the fall for bad design.

If I'm going to be thrown under the buss either way, id rather choose the option they makes more sense given the state of the game than the option that is almost certain to be ignored.

drool · Apr 5, 2024

no never

UngeheuerLich · Apr 5, 2024

Faolyn said:
Because you're actually following RAW when you say a goliath can't use high-altitude acclimation in the lowlands, whereas you're arbitrarily deciding a background feature doesn't work because you say so.

In the majority of backgrounds, there is nothing that says that feature goes away when you're away from the PC's base of operations. You're deciding that. When people say things like "they don't know you're a folk hero so you can't use the folk hero feature," that is deliberately ignoring what that feature actually says (which is nothing about people knowing or not knowing you're a hero). When people say "you don't have a criminal contacts here," without saying "but you can work on getting new contacts," you're deliberately ignoring the feature.

Do you need a background to "work on getting new contacts".
What about a rogue who has the sailor background.
Do you disallow them to make criminal contacts? What does the rogue with the criminal background say, if you just allow anyone to get contacts?

I would really prefer if the background feature would state:
"you have advantage on checks to get into good standing with criminal organizations and in your home region you already have established some connections"

The first part could as well be a background feat instead of a feature.
The latter part could be a general character building guideline -> when you start at first level, you have connections to the world around you. Work with your DM what exactly this means. The prewritten adventure and your background might guide you.

Faolyn · Apr 5, 2024

Greg K said:
Because the DM did not have a published adventure path picked out to run nor did he or she have a pre-set story in mind in which the PCs would end up in a far away setting or another plane. Instead, the players actions or events in response to the players actions resulted in the party traveling to a far away land or to another plane after the campaign had begun.

That's... completely different than what we've been talking about, though. The things you bring up are all within the natural order of play, and are (presumably) all the results of the players' own actions. We've been talking about things like starting out with something like Curse of Strahd, where certain features aren't going to logically work, but not bothering to tell the players their ability will be useless.

Faolyn · Apr 5, 2024

UngeheuerLich said:
Do you need a background to "work on getting new contacts".
What about a rogue who has the sailor background.
Do you disallow them to make criminal contacts? What does the rogue with the criminal background say, if you just allow anyone to get contacts?

If players RP getting criminal contacts, that's great! What does that have to do with deciding a background feature just plain doesn't work or can't be made to work?

UngeheuerLich said:
I would really prefer if the background feature would state:
"you have advantage on checks to get into good standing with criminal organizations and in your home region you already have established some connections"

Sure, that would have been great. But it's clear that the designers mostly wanted to avoid mechanics in the '14 backgrounds, and to give people role-playing hooks that weren't mechanics-dependent. They also realized that probably the majority of games take place nowhere near a character's home region (the phrase "murder hobo" is quite accurate) and thus adding that caveat would be seen as useless and unnecessarily limiting.

mamba · Apr 5, 2024

Faolyn said:
They also realized that probably the majority of games take place nowhere near a character's home region (the phrase "murder hobo" is quite accurate) and thus adding that caveat would be seen as useless and unnecessarily limiting.

I see that caveat as making it realistic / feasible, and believe WotC learned from the mistake of omitting that limitation in the PHB.

Compare the Criminal (PHB) to the Smuggler (GoS), they are very similar, but the Smuggler has a logical limitation baked in

Feature: Criminal Contact
You have a reliable and trustworthy contact who acts as your liaison to a network of other criminals. You know how to get messages to and from your contact, even over great distances; specifically, you know the local messengers, corrupt caravan masters, and seedy sailors who can deliver messages for you.

Feature: Down Low
You are acquainted with a network of smugglers who are willing to help you out of tight situations. While in a particular town, city, or other similarly sized community (DM’s discretion), you and your companions can stay for free in safe houses. Safe houses provide a poor lifestyle. While staying at a safe house, you can choose to keep your presence (and that of your companions) a secret.

The PHB made the mistake of not limiting the feature, we are just correcting that mistake

I have no problem with the Criminal being phrased like that and limiting the feature to a region, and we would have saved ourselves 50 pages of discussion if WotC had gotten it right in the PHB

UngeheuerLich · Apr 5, 2024

Faolyn said:
If players RP getting criminal contacts, that's great! What does that have to do with deciding a background feature just plain doesn't work or can't be made to work?

You ignored my points.

Faolyn said:
Sure, that would have been great. But it's clear that the designers mostly wanted to avoid mechanics in the '14 backgrounds, and to give people role-playing hooks that weren't mechanics-dependent.

Probably. I think it was a mistake t9 add all or nothing features.

Faolyn said:
They also realized that probably the majority of games take place nowhere near a character's home region (the phrase "murder hobo" is quite accurate) and thus adding that caveat would be seen as useless and unnecessarily limiting.

They did not realize that when designing the ranger... also you dissected my feature into two seperate ones which totally changes what I said. The home region feature without the added benefit of course is bad. It should just get you a jump start not carry the whole weight.

Note that in some prewritten adventures, there were extra benefits/hooks for all the backgrounds.

The EnWorld Zeitgeist adventure path has benefits/side quests for the special backgrounds (themes) spread all over the campaign. And that works great.

This is way more useful than generic features you wrote down once and just forget, because often they are just non-benefits.

Same goes for trinkets.
The barovian trinkets lead to some personal side quests. Which was very cool. The generic trinkets were all bit forgotten.

Faolyn · Apr 5, 2024

UngeheuerLich said:
You ignored my points.

No, I didn't.

Do you need a background to get criminal (or whatever) contacts. No. But the criminal (and other bgs) have them baked in.

UngeheuerLich said:
Probably. I think it was a mistake t9 add all or nothing features.

Quite probably yes. But the point others were making is that, because of their personal reading of the features, the features were objectively bad and any attempt to try to make them work is illogical or--as one person put it--makes me a rules lawyer. Rather than someone who is willing to work with the player so they don't miss out on a trait they want.

UngeheuerLich said:
They did not realize that when designing the ranger... also you dissected my feature into two seperate ones which totally changes what I said. The home region feature without the added benefit of course is bad. It should just get you a jump start not carry the whole weight.

Note that in some prewritten adventures, there were extra benefits/hooks for all the backgrounds.

The EnWorld Zeitgeist adventure path has benefits/side quests for the special backgrounds (themes) spread all over the campaign. And that works great.

This is way more useful than generic features you wrote down once and just forget, because often they are just non-benefits.

That assumes people forget their background trait. Maybe you do, but I don't. I don't always get to use my background traits, but I don't forget they exist.

bmfrosty · Apr 5, 2024

No, but mostly because I don't like the character build metagame. I don't like a game where the players argue about rules and make it hard for the DM to make a quick ruling.

UngeheuerLich · Apr 5, 2024

Faolyn said:
No, I didn't.

Lets say we disagree there.

Faolyn said:
That assumes people forget their background trait. Maybe you do, but I don't. I don't always get to use my background traits, but I don't forget they exist.

Me and many other people. Here in the forum as well as in my games over 10 years...

Congratulations to you. But no. Good riddance. Sorry.

Those features have no inherent value for me as written.

D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

Plan to adopt the new core rules?

Yep

Nope

tetrasodium

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drool

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UngeheuerLich

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Faolyn

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Faolyn

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mamba

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UngeheuerLich

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bmfrosty

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UngeheuerLich

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