RainOnTheSun
Explorer
I like the idea of these being the most core spells to a wizard, just from a lore perspective - even if you don't know how to weave magical energy into a sophisticated effect, at the very least you can bludgeon someone with it.
D&D General Stripping the Wizard to Bare Bones (+)
I like the idea of these being the most core spells to a wizard, just from a lore perspective - even if you don't know how to weave magical energy into a sophisticated effect, at the very least you can bludgeon someone with it.
fuindordm
Adventurer
Free your mind; kill the 8 schools!
What makes a wizard? Their training. In literature, the abilities of academic/hermetic magicians are often defined by their masters/schools. So your premise is good. The universal spells can be ones that either underly magic itself (detect magic, dispel magic...) or ones that are just extremely widespread because they have existed for a long time, or because they are so common that no one considers them a trade secret.
Taking a page from Monte Cook's "Diamond Throne" setting, the spells themselves can be classified as common, rare, or exotic. Common spells may be common because they are universally useful or because they are actually weaker than average for their level.
So I would propose that the universal wizard list can have a few more spells per level, but reserve the best spells of each level for the specialties/schools.
And the schools don't necessarily need to have an elemental theme--they can represent literal schools with broader advantages. A school of magic can have a wide variety of unique spells invented by its star faculty over the centuries!
What makes a wizard? Their training. In literature, the abilities of academic/hermetic magicians are often defined by their masters/schools. So your premise is good. The universal spells can be ones that either underly magic itself (detect magic, dispel magic...) or ones that are just extremely widespread because they have existed for a long time, or because they are so common that no one considers them a trade secret.
Taking a page from Monte Cook's "Diamond Throne" setting, the spells themselves can be classified as common, rare, or exotic. Common spells may be common because they are universally useful or because they are actually weaker than average for their level.
So I would propose that the universal wizard list can have a few more spells per level, but reserve the best spells of each level for the specialties/schools.
And the schools don't necessarily need to have an elemental theme--they can represent literal schools with broader advantages. A school of magic can have a wide variety of unique spells invented by its star faculty over the centuries!
CreamCloud0
One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
hmmm, my thoughts are thus:
CANTRIPS
encode thoughts
firebolt
light
mage hand
mending
message
minor illusion
prestidigitation
1ST LEVEL
alarm
chromatic orb
comprehend languages
detect magic
find familiar
identify
mage armour
magic missile
unseen servant
2ND LEVEL
augury
borrowed knowledge
detect thoughts
enhance ability
knock
levitate
locate object
thought shield
3RD LEVEL
dispel magic
galder's tower
glyph of warding
magic circle
sending
4TH LEVEL
banishment
conjour minor elemental
dimension door
leomund's secret chest
mordenkainen's private sanctum
5TH LEVEL
bigby's hand
geas
legend lore
planar binding
39 spells across 6 spell levels, a little more than the average of 5 per level but still a fairly tight knit selection of core wizard spells
CANTRIPS
encode thoughts
firebolt
light
mage hand
mending
message
minor illusion
prestidigitation
1ST LEVEL
alarm
chromatic orb
comprehend languages
detect magic
find familiar
identify
mage armour
magic missile
unseen servant
2ND LEVEL
augury
borrowed knowledge
detect thoughts
enhance ability
knock
levitate
locate object
thought shield
3RD LEVEL
dispel magic
galder's tower
glyph of warding
magic circle
sending
4TH LEVEL
banishment
conjour minor elemental
dimension door
leomund's secret chest
mordenkainen's private sanctum
5TH LEVEL
bigby's hand
geas
legend lore
planar binding
39 spells across 6 spell levels, a little more than the average of 5 per level but still a fairly tight knit selection of core wizard spells
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Stormonu
Legend
That's actually where I started from. I contemplated using B/X as the template for the "core" wizard list and then tried to slim it down even further (or add where needed).Ooof... this is a big task.
I'm not sure if it's the best way to do it, but one way you could start is to use the spell lists from an older, less-bloated edition of the game. This is only a starting point, though... there is still a lot of work to be done. (Not all of the older-edition spells made it into 5E, some were renamed, others were moved to different levels or classes...) You'd probably end up writing/converting a quarter of the list yourself.
Another way would be to make subclass-specific spell lists. Evokers, Conjurers, Enchanters, and Necromancers all have their own unique spell lists, and there would be only a very small amount of overlap between them--spells like detect magic, mage armor, and maybe magic missile would be universal. This would allow for some niche protection between different wizard subclasses, since only certain subclasses would gain access to iconic wizard spells (fireball and lightning bolt are iconic Evocation spells, so they would only be on the Evoker's list. Animate dead and vampiric touch are found only on the Necromancer list. Shield and Counterspell are only on the Abjurer's list. And so on.)
That's a huge amount of work too, and a hefty dose of bookkeeping on top of it. And you'd expect even more push-back from your players than you're going to get as it is.
That's about all I've got. It's a good idea, but it is a big undertaking. Good luck!
Stormonu
Legend
I have other plans for the sorcerer - I've been rebuilding that class with a stronger theme and leaning into both spell point and spontaneous casting (it and the bard), whereas the wizard will be the prememorized spell class (and all the others). This thread is focusing on the spell list aspect of the wizard itself.
Meech17
Adventurer
I really like this idea. I do think the Wizarding schools is a neat concept that just doesn't play out. Specialization gives you some benefits, but it should really be expanded.
I'd even perhaps consider combining the Sorcerer and Warlock.
Allow wizards to elect a major and minor school. They get all their major school spells, and then a limited selection of their minor school spells. That can help with your last point of lists being too short.
Others have already touched on this, but I think if we're going so far to revamp the wizard, the Sorcerer is getting revamped as well. I've never liked them sharing spell lists. It just complicates things and makes for the age old problem of having to explain the differences to new players.
I'd even perhaps consider combining the Sorcerer and Warlock.
I think at the very basic level.. Cantrips and level 1 spells Wizards should get a taste of everything. Very basic attack and protection spells. Maybe swap Firebolt for a Magicbolt like others have suggested. This is akin to being a freshman in college and taking your general classes. You do a little of everything before you specialize. Getting higher versions of these spells however would be relegated to their specific schools. Like I don't think Fireball should be a general spell, regardless of how iconic it is.
Allow wizards to elect a major and minor school. They get all their major school spells, and then a limited selection of their minor school spells. That can help with your last point of lists being too short.
Baron Opal II
Hero
I agree. Now, I support wholly the idea of subclasses being guilds or power sources. The caster is limited in their repertoire by said power. I've made a few using the concepts of Dreaming, Calling and Binding, Prismatics, Planes of force shaped by Mathematics, and Potential and Abnegation. Then, you pick a number of spells per level, 7-12 is a good number, and pick to fit the theme.
CreamCloud0
One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
did this thread already burn out? i thought it was interesting...
Shardstone
Hero
Patience, my friend. I've been cookin'. Just finishing subclasses for the design this inspired.
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