payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
Right, that’s where the honesty comes in. Allowing players to discover answers without robbing them a victory. Some GMs struggle with this. Lord knows I’ve known a few.
The Answer is not (always) on your Character Sheet
aramis erak
Legend
To me, it means the GM doesn't want one abstracting.
In my experience, it's been a cognate for "Shut down the mechanics thinking and roleplay, you «bleep»!"
I've never seen it lead to good RP nor a good time. Not even the few times I've used it.
I have seen it lead to player frustration, ostracization, and loss of players who have autism spectrum disorders and/or anxiety disorder.
Now, while I agree with the core sentiment of some who use it — don't limit yourself to the game's action list — the people I've been encountering using it at table are not doing it in a constructive way.
Most of them weren't even the GM.
So, to me, it's become inherently linked to ableist hostility to often needed abstraction for those on the spectrums (Autism spectrum or anxiety spectrum).
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
One of the interesting aspects of this thread topic is how its applied in pillars of D&D. The mechanical layout of the system flows in this order; Combat>Exploration>Social. With social being the most likely target of answer not on character sheet thought. During the social mechanics threads there were a number of folks voicing the idea that mechanics are not needed because social pillar is where the role play lives. Some pillars are viewed as heavily leaning, if not exclusively into mechanics or role play, but do not contain elements of both.
Wolfpack48
Adventurer
For me, this has always been things the player, not the character, must figure out, It can't be adjudicated by a simple die roll against a skill, trait or stat.
Typical example is a series of Call of Cthulhu clues that have been handed out to the party that once deduced, point to a potential location or event in the adventure. There is no "roll" to tell the party where to go next or what to do.
Another example is an in-game riddle that is solvable with what the party knows (more clues can be made available possibly with knowledge checks), but that the ultimate answer to the riddle cannot be solved with a die roll.
In both of the examples, the clues should be fairly solvable and players should be given as many clues as possible, but solving the puzzle through a dice roll is anti-climactic and removes the good feeling players get for solving the puzzle. I agree it can be frustrating if the puzzle is so obtuse that it could never be solved with common sense or one that doesn't serve everyone at the table.
Thomas Shey
Legend
I also should note (and I don't mean to bash your tastes here at all to make it clear) that some people just don't find puzzle solving all that interesting at the best of times.
Wolfpack48
Adventurer
That's fine. Different tastes for different tables. I have found Call of Cthulhu players tend to like solving mysteries.
payn
He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
To play devils advocate for a moment, what happens when the players never figure out the clues/puzzle?
Thomas Shey
Legend
Well, yes, if you don't that's probably an odd choice of game to be playing. Most horror games other than action-horror or survival-horror far as that goes.
Wolfpack48
Adventurer
In 46 years of playing, I've never experienced it, so couldn't tell you. But then I don't think we ever had what I described as an obtuse mystery. Or maybe we just had players that really loved solving mysteries. Shrug. In any case, it never "broke the adventure," which is what I think you're getting at.
EDIT: To clarify, most mysteries in CoC aren't designed in such a way as to block all forward process if they aren't solved. They can help, but they aren't typically required.
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I found FantasyCraft's explicit "hint" abilities useful in that front. You straight up just ask the GM for help, flavored as either investigative prowess or divination.
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