D&D (2024) WotC Fireside Chat: Revised 2024 Player’s Handbook

GMMichael said:

I'm glad that the races have become species. The cross-breeding was getting out of control.

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"Race" in the fantasy sense has ALWAYS meant species.

Tolkien NEVER intended elves and hobbits to merely be varieties of the same species in the way "caucasians" and "asians" are here on Earth.

Of course that has never stopped fantasy fans from allowing (or encouraging) cross-breeds like half-elves.

And the change in the PHB is not about this. It never was. It was always to be avoiding the term "race" which got tainted by associations from real life.

Micah Sweet said:

That isn't the entirety of magic. That is spells, a subset of magic.

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And according to JC, only spells and things that are explicitly described as magic, are magic. A dragon flying breaks the laws of physics, but it isn’t magic. It’s just part of how the fantastical world works.

Micah Sweet said:

And the Weave explanation shouldn't be in the PH. It's the biggest piece of evidence in the game for @Yaarel 's "FR is the assumed setting for 5e" theory, and is referenced in no other setting.

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There are a ton of setting assumptions baked into the base rules of D&D, from the weave, to the planes of existence, to the existence of multiple worlds. A DM can change these things in their own game, but unless they do so, all these things are baked-in parts of the implied setting.

Charlaquin said:

But supernatural doesn’t have to be magical, particularly in a setting where magic is defined so specifically as manipulating an energy field called the weave by means of somatic, material, and verbal components.

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But supernatural should imply beyond natural.

A human cannot fly on his own. You can use all sorts of reasons to justify it: magic science, technology, psionics, alien species, divine birth, etc. But all of those aren't natural for humans. I detest the idea that with enough training, you can learn to do supernatural things as a natural human. Welcome to 10th level, gravity no longer applies to you, normal mundane person!

Remathilis said:

But supernatural should imply beyond natural.

A human cannot fly on his own. You can use all sorts of reasons to justify it: magic science, technology, psionics, alien species, divine birth, etc. But all of those aren't natural for humans. I detest the idea that with enough training, you can learn to do supernatural things as a natural human. Welcome to 10th level, gravity no longer applies to you, normal mundane person!

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Don't we usually wait at least a month before we relitigate the same issue in different threads?

Remathilis said:

But supernatural should imply beyond natural.

A human cannot fly on his own. You can use all sorts of reasons to justify it: magic science, technology, psionics, alien species, divine birth, etc. But all of those aren't natural for humans. I detest the idea that with enough training, you can learn to do supernatural things as a natural human. Welcome to 10th level, gravity no longer applies to you, normal mundane person!

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Is unaided flight a thing anyone has ever asked for fighters to be capable of? I was talking about superhuman feats of physical prowess, the specific example I used being cutting a mountain in half with a sword. I could see a character who could jump high and far enough being practically indistinguishable from flight, I suppose, but I imagine such a leap allowing for far less precise areal maneuvering than actual flight would do.

Oofta said:

Or ... you take magic into account when planning and set up scenarios where casters don't totally control the narrative. Accept that having a different role doesn't mean inferior.

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As a DM, that sucks. I've got two high-level groups now, and a good chunk of prep is now devoted to, "can a single spell invalidate this encounter that I've spent 15 minutes prepping"?

Spellcasters just get to do what spells say; martials have to play "mother may I".

Charlaquin said:

But supernatural doesn’t have to be magical, particularly in a setting where magic is defined so specifically as manipulating an energy field called the weave by means of somatic, material, and verbal components.

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In the jargon that makes most sense to me, magic is magic is magic is magic.

Anything that is "extraordinary" in our reallife counts as "magic", including the weird stuff like quantum observer effect and any sufficiently advanced technology.

That said, magic doesnt necessarily mean "spell casting". Sometimes magic is class features and so on.

Micah Sweet said:

How exactly would you give them narrative control?

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The Fighter class needs "magic" by whatever name, especially to function at the superheroic higher tiers.

Ultimately it is the Fighter fans who need to decide how to do this.

Maybe each Fighter subclass defines the method of magic that continues to develop as one advances thru the higher tiers.

The choice of Eldritch Knight comes with Arcane "science" narratives, and Psi War with Psionic "soul" narratives. The default for the Fighter class and the Champion subclass should probably be the ki, the part of the soul relating to the bodily aura and body magic, similar to the Monk. Personally, am less fond of part-casters but this is a mechanical concern about it feeling subpar at the higher tiers, but otherwise the flavor of a gish is great.

Maybe the simplest way to access high level magical effects is for the Fighter class to create magic items as a class feature. These have a Zen swordsmith flavor of imbuing ones own soul into the item. Thus there is a personal bond with the item to summon it from any where, while other creatures are unable to attune the item. These magic items can have whatever effects the player chooses, and would normally be a magic sword or shield with special properties.

The ki-default Champion class would be minimalist magic, simply becoming "stronger". But even this approach might "teleport" and "planeshift" by identifying access points into the Ethereal Plane, including Fey and Shadow, whence into the Celestial and Fiend, whence the rest of the Astral.

Other methods of narrative control are also possible. For high tiers, maybe lean into the "Bastion" Fortress. Here the Fighter class can assemble a literal army of NPCs, and in this way instruct the NPCs to perform various narrative tasks.

The Battlemaster can full-on dabble in magic, simply by selecting special Maneuvers that come with magical flavor and extraordinary effects.

Ultimately it is the Fighter fans who need to agree with each other. But there are numerous ways to amp up the magic while still maintaining the feel of a traditional D&D Fighter − except of course that this Fighter refuses to retire at level 8.

MoonSong said:

Divibe Soul is dead. It makes no sense when picked at higher levels. If you are the party healer, you need to be it from the get go. Otherwise, by the time you turn into a healer the party already has a healer. Also, getting access to the extra spell list after you have chosen your cantrips? And you need to wait up to level 16 to switch all cantrips?

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First why do you want to change all your cantrips rather than just a couple? Even as a Divine Soul you're a mix. But you can get by at L1 and L2 with Magic Initiate. Or no healer and that's why you become one.

If Celestial Warlock is alive I don't see why Divine Soul is dead.

Steampunkette said:

Rope + Grappling Hook. Fighter is Across.

DM writes the far side as lower than the near side. Fighter does a cool running jump. Fighter is Across.

DM doesn't write in a 30ft gap. Problem solved.

Statue/Tree/Whatever makes a bridge. Fighter is across.

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With the exception of the grappling hook, these all basically say "treat the martial with kid gloves and make sure you design to what they can handle rather than to what the world/story asks. No big gaps, that's unfun for the fighter! Only flat surfaces from now on!

Steampunkette said:

Also: the Rogue, the Ranger, the Paladin, the Barbarian, and the Monk are ALL on the same side as the Fighter, too. None of them get a 30ft Teleport or Fly or anything of the sort.

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Ranger and paladins get magic. Barbarian and monk have supernatural powers. It's easy to justify them having some way of getting over that gap by ignoring the laws of physics. Only rogues are stuck with the fighter on the "pick a supernatural subclass or suck" boat.

Steampunkette said:

Casters should be good at some things (Overcoming environmental obstacles is a good option) where Martials should be good at overcoming others (Beating up baddies).

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I'll give you that when 90% of your attack magic in D&D is gone. But I don't see fireball getting removed any time soon.

Yaarel said:

In the jargon that makes most sense to me, magic is magic is magic is magic.

Anything that is "extraordinary" in our reallife counts as "magic", including the weird stuff like quantum observer effect and any sufficiently advanced technology.

That said, magic doesnt necessarily mean "spell casting". Sometimes magic is class features and so on.

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Well, D&D doesn’t use the jargon that makes the most sense to you then. Never has, as far as I’m aware. I’m pretty sure dragons have always been able to fly inside an antimagic field, Dispel Magic has never caused giants to collapse under their own body weight, and you’ve never been able to Counterspell a troll’s regeneration.