D&D 5E How would YOU nerf the wizard? +

Meech17 · Apr 26, 2024

I think @Stormonu did a thread about changing up the Wizard, and myself and a few people mentioned making the schools of magic more meaningful.

Wizards are very powerful, and they should be. But I don't think they should be these unlimited tool boxes. I'd do as @Whizbang Dustyboots suggests and cut down on the universal spells. Wizards would be able to learn some very basic spells of each school at first, maybe second level, but from there you specialize into your school, where the list of spells you choose from are strictly from that school. I'd perhaps allow for a minor school of magic as well, that you could choose in addition to your major school, and get a more limited, curated selection of spells from that list.

the Jester said:
First, return to a d4 Hit Die.

I suggested this on one of the D&D subreddits not too long ago and got absolutely dragged for it. But I agree.

CreamCloud0 · Apr 26, 2024

my two favoured options is doing one of either:
1) cut their number of spell slots by 30~45%, this is an alteration that i would apply evenly to most if not all the fullcasters if it were applied.
2) seriously cut away most of their offensive spells and a chunk of the rest of their spell list, let subclasses fill out their spell list with apropriately themed spells.

GrimCo · Apr 26, 2024

Problem is that there isnt equal number of spell of each school at every level. Some schools in general don't have that many spells. For school specific lists, whole section on spells needs to be redone and all of them should have decent spells.

Meech17 · Apr 26, 2024

GrimCo said:
Problem is that there isnt equal number of spell of each school at every level. Some schools in general don't have that many spells. For school specific lists, whole section on spells needs to be redone and all of them should have decent spells.

I agree. But if we're going to vastly change the wizard, might as well do it right.

Tonguez · Apr 26, 2024

I was thinking of spells needing two actions - one to charge the mana and one to activate. Subclass would allow thematic spells to charge as a bonus action and items (wands, staves) would be precharged and just needed activation (ie 1 action).

Compensate by making spells more flexible

Whizbang Dustyboots · Apr 26, 2024

GrimCo said:
Problem is that there isnt equal number of spell of each school at every level. Some schools in general don't have that many spells. For school specific lists, whole section on spells needs to be redone and all of them should have decent spells.

Starting with the 2024 PHB, most of the wizard subclasses won't be school based, so this is less of an issue, but yes, new spells should be created to fill in the gaps. I believe they've already said that they're working on this issue.

Stormonu · Apr 26, 2024

As much as I love not having to preselect my spells for the day as a player, I think it was a mistake to give free reign of that ability to the wizard, when they have almost no restriction on the suite of spell options they can draw from. I think I would have restricted spontaneous casting to spells in their specialty, and likely ritual spells. This would give a real leg up to the sorcerer if they could spontaneous cast their much more limited spell list. Warlocks could go either way (I'd lean towards spontaneous, as they only have two at any given time) and Clerics & Druids would go back to preselected with spontaneous options for their Domain spells (choice of one of Elemental,Plant, or Animal for the druid?)

The biggest thing in the end is cutting down the vast list they can draw from and/or put out. There's an arcane spell for every problem in the game and its too easy for the Wizard to have the whole suite in their arsenal. The more you can narrow what they can have and what problems a particular wizard can solve, the more you restrict their ability to dominate play and have an easy button for various situations in the three pillars.

Also, shove 'em back to d4 hit points, let the players whine and deal with having some drawback to the class.

Whizbang Dustyboots · Apr 26, 2024

Stormonu said:
Also, shove 'em back to d4 hit points, let the players whine and deal with having some drawback to the class.

Unless healing is very different in the 2024 books, I think this would be more of a psychological issue than a real one, after level two or three.

Xenolith234 · Apr 26, 2024

Stormonu said:
As much as I love not having to preselect my spells for the day as a player, I think it was a mistake to give free reign of that ability to the wizard, when they have almost no restriction on the suite of spell options they can draw from. I think I would have restricted spontaneous casting to spells in their specialty, and likely ritual spells. This would give a real leg up to the sorcerer if they could spontaneous cast their much more limited spell list. Warlocks could go either way (I'd lean towards spontaneous, as they only have two at any given time) and Clerics & Druids would go back to preselected with spontaneous options for their Domain spells (choice of one of Elemental,Plant, or Animal for the druid?)

The biggest thing in the end is cutting down the vast list they can draw from and/or put out. There's an arcane spell for every problem in the game and its too easy for the Wizard to have the whole suite in their arsenal. The more you can narrow what they can have and what problems a particular wizard can solve, the more you restrict their ability to dominate play and have an easy button for various situations in the three pillars.

Also, shove 'em back to d4 hit points, let the players whine and deal with having some drawback to the class.

That's the real problem, is that over the editions, most drawbacks have been removed, and only power has been given in return. There used to be penalties to some ability scores for races, but now it's just pluses all the way down.

billd91 · Apr 26, 2024

Lots of monsters have no saving throw proficiencies - every monster should at least two and at least one of them should be in the three most common stats for saving throws: Con, Dex, or Wis.

Casting most spells in melee should be harder. Divide spells into melee-compatible (like booming blade) and non-melee compatible (like most others) and have the non-compatible ones provoke opportunity attacks and be disruptable.

D&D 5E How would YOU nerf the wizard? +

Meech17

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CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.

GrimCo

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Meech17

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Tonguez

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Whizbang Dustyboots

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Stormonu

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Whizbang Dustyboots

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Xenolith234

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billd91

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