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To be clear, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. If what you're doing works for you, it works for you -- it just happens to be fundamentally at odds with the whole way I approach most games (and, as noted earlier, rolling dice too often is definitely not a thing that tends to happen in...

Whereas I'm typically fine with status quo as a possible outcome. Sometimes, "no, you're not able to pick this lock at this time, try something else or find a way to change the situation in your favour" is an outcome that makes sense in the context of the fictional world, and I don't have a need...

I'm just pointing out that I've seen advocates for and participated personally in this playstyle outside of the OSR (including much more recently than 22 years ago on both counts), and now you have have seen it show up outside the OSR as well. :cool: Also, you very much did say it's not...

I developed this style of play because I grew up running Rolemaster, where any given roll has a chance of disaster. This naturally guided me towards running those games in a way in which rolls weren't called for excessively, despite the fact it is a skill-based system. As far back as the...

I always check, but that's because I know that I generally need to avoid throwing opinions around in 5e threads. For someone who is here for D&D, and especially 5e, I suspect it's very easy to overlook the fact that any other sort of discussion happens.

I am (pleasantly) surprised by the amount of love for RM going on in this thread. Even if RMU specifically is of no interest to me, I'm happy to see it introducing people to the wider RM fold. I'm currently seven sessions into the first game I've ever run in the Forgotten Realms (with any...

If they're in a game with dozens of class and race options, then they're most likely there for people who want dozens of class and race options and they matter to those people simply by dint of their existence. If you want a detailed avian race with a unique culture, then you're looking at...

A lot of this conversation seems to be begging the question, to me. If I like a setting, if I'm inspired to run a game in that setting, then I will do so. If I, as a GM, count as a player for the purposes of this discussion, then I can't really answer the question with anything more than saying...

It sounds like when you say "D&D" you mean 5e, Pathfinder and similar games, where choosing and using specific feats and abilities is a key component (hence my feeling that you were referring to games with a strong charop element). As this is a thread in the TTRPG General forum, I assume D&D...

There's a presumption that, if you're at my table, you're "a bit interested" in planning, problem solving, lateral thinking and the like. Probably a lot more than you're interested in "building combos" and "maximising actions", and I don't think it should be taken as read that if you're...

I'm only anticipating one game, and that's Ars Magica 5th DE.

The first published RPG I ran was Fighting Fantasy. My most memorable event was sitting around an outdoor table at school during lunch. We would have been 11 - 12 years old. One of the players decided his character was taking a leak while exploring a dungeon. An orc rushed in, chopped his ahem...

Yep. If I'm running a game where common D&Dism apply, I'll tell the players anything they know as players is likely common knowledge in the world -- but to note that not everything that is considered common knowledge is necessary 100% correct, thus leaving a bit of room for mixing some things...

OK, but that's a reason to have a problem with railroading GMs, not player-skill GMs. I have little time for the idea rules can protect you from bad behaviour. Further, as mentioned earlier, as far as I'm concerned, it's the fact that the participants are able to make judgements about outcomes...

I think the extreme character skill people don't want GMs arbitrating at all -- the mechanics are there for that and the GM is just there to help facilitate the mechanics. Neutral doesn't really come into it, because they're not making decisions in the first place, just following the program...

I use those phrases. I would also say that it is because I use them I personally consider it so critical to establish a common framework, and to respond reasonably and with an open mind when players question their understanding of the situation or a ruling I've made. I agree with this. Players...

OK, so we pretty much agree, it seems. But, in that case, I can't see why you think a "player skill" focused game is different to any other in this regard. The only basis for saying a player skill is really just about "learning to play the GM" is if you ignore that learning to work together and...

You call it learning to play the GM. I describe it as establishing a shared understanding and expectations. I consider this a critical component of any successful game and it works both ways -- it's not just about the players understanding the GM, but the GM understanding the players, their...

This is very easy to assert, but how are you arriving at the conclusion that someone gets screwed any time a mistake is made? Why are there no options to discuss a situation, question things that don't makes sense or otherwise take steps such that no one gets unreasonably screwed? If I, as GM...

That hasn't been my experience at all. Both my adult players and my pre-teen nieces and nephews have learned through doing, through consistent action and consequence. I've had one player out of around 15 - 20 in my OSRish games who didn't particularly enjoy the style of play and moved on, but...