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I can’t get to my copy of 1e at the moment but it’s also possible I’ve gone crazy. There’s a small chance I mixed it up with the run away move (run into something worse) which has the same problems. Anyway I’ll look through 1e tomorrow for my own sanity because I was sure it was Monsterhearts...

If you're talking about being watched from the shadows, it's Monsterhearts.

I had to find the right people and the right structure/system. Until I had a conversation with Ron I was still putting too much emphasis on the system to facilitate things. Afterwards I focussed on finding the right people and it worked out. Part of that process was realising I couldn’t just...

It doesn’t to me. I think GNS Narrativism is a red herring in a lot of these discussions and Narrativists (including me), get defensive about the term and drift the conversation. Other than that, I think your overall analysis very broadly matches what’s going on. Although I think you over...

I’m not sceptical that it happened. Just surprised because the inertia of trad play and especially D&D play tends to override what a system is doing. Although. This could very well be an artefact of the play culture I grew up with (White Wolf). I’m surprised (although less so) when people find...

To be fair, you’re right. I apologise. I find the analogy apt but my framing was condescending.

To swipe from @pemerton I think doing a cross word puzzle and reading a book of fiction exist on a continuum. They both happen on a page and involve words. I mean you can read cross word puzzles right? and the words don’t necessarily refer to anything that exists? That’s the same as fiction...

That’s fascinating. I know a lot of people talk about 4E as Narrativist (I know Ron does) but I never believed it could actually change the nature of play like that.

Yeah you got it. Although it's hard to discuss in detail without examining specific resolution systems and how they're applied.

I’m getting at something a bit more fundamental but I probably shouldn’t have even bothered trying to address it. The only reason I attempted to do so was because @innerdude was talking about agency in trad games and not only do I fundamentally disagree with his take, I think it’s socially and...

I'm really at bad writing because this was my point, I mostly agree with everything you've said. (although more incoming later)

This fits my experience as well. When you genuinely get questions you want to answer and like the system (not the mechanics, the system), play becomes absolutely awesome. There’s nothing like it.

You’re probably better off asking specific people for their takes rather than seeing them as representatives of a theory. As you pointed out, people have genuinely different views. For instance, I do consider Critical Roll as Narrativist play (at a rough estimate about half of all role-players...

My broader point was really about how relationships end up being upstream of mechanics. So no, I don’t think the principles and move list do anything. Fictional positioning can only be as important as the groups choreography allows. Although I think a lot of people/groups have issues with...

Depending on how connected the intent and task are, I’m ok with the Burning Wheel. I mean I have preferences but I was getting at something a bit different, and my latest rant seems like it’s attacking BW but it’s more about how the IIEE theory gets used. Also, ‘the gift’ is so awesome that...

I made a bit of a hash of that last post. I’ll try and explain more thoroughly but it’s a hard subject and to write diplomatically would take too long. So I’m going to have to attack a huge amount of Narrativist play. Hidden backstory is stuff given fictional positioning that the players aren’t...

I don’t think I’d use a resolution system that prioritised intent in that way. The only games I can think of off the top of my head that do it are The Shadow of Yesterday and The Burning Wheel (both debatably). The issue is that the intent tends to drown out the immediate diegetic conflict and...

I mean it might be absurd but it’s how I play and I wouldn’t want to play any other way. Also I don’t get the whole thing about the GM being able to do anything. I wrote down the assassin kills the princess and so I’m not free to change that. Or in the case where the assassin is there...

I’ll walk you though how to get from critical roll to Narrativist play. (or how I would do it at least) Constrain the situation. What I mean by this, is the GM should create a cast of NPC’s and relationships between them and the player characters. Then the GM and the players have got to be...

It depends on the game right. I’m pretty sure in the game I was using for the original example, you’re just allowed to kill off NPC’s if another NPC is motivated to kill them. That doesn’t necessarily get to the point of whether it’s satisfying or not. Which to me is a bit of an open question...