"Quality Standards" in the d20 System Guide

So what? You know those parents offended by TBoEF would probably be offended by d20 Heavy Metal and d20 Call of Cthulhu if they displayed excessive gore and/or sexuality, don't you?

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Not particularly, no.

That aside, it is WotC's call on what image they wish to project with their trademark, not yours. And I doubt they will be calling on you to fill the position anytime soon.

Wycen said:

Just this year they forced Fast Forward Entertainment to destroy several books for d20 license violations, (usually stemming from using the name Drawmij).

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Yeah, but that wasn't while AV was there, right?

The Century Worm is an ... um... interesting creature from the Fiend Folio. Here's a picture.



If that doesn't sum it up for you, let me just give some examples of text for this guy...

"... pulpy flesh topped by a menacing head partially covered by a hood of rough, dark brown skin ... [Squirming larvae] sometimes spill out of the worm's mouth, though they die within an hour for want of their parent's life-giving nutrient bile."

Though, personally, I like the description of how it attacks...
"...finishing off enemies with a satisfying gulp."

Quite a lot has already been said, some it valid.

First, let us put the "blame" for this where it belongs. Valar and the BoEF most likely were the catalyst for this change, but the blame still must rest solely on the heads of those who performed the action, in this case WoTC. Valar did not force a response, certainly not this particular response. WoTC could have chosen any of a number of responses.

While WoTC has the right (legally) to change the d20 license in any way they choose, at any time they choose, what they have done here is bad. As has been pointed out, this will have the efect of stifling creativity within the d20 license. While some of that creativity may simply be chased to the OGL, it is also possible that it will go to other game systems entirely, leaving what has been my favorite game for 26 years that much poorer as a direct result.

A point that has not yet been made, the policy as written is discriminatory. It is saying that females, by their very nature, are purile in a way that males are not. Am I the only one that has a problem with this?

As another flaw in WoTC's reasoning, consider this image:

A woman, sitting. It is obvious that she is completely topless.

(So far, this might be a no-no...)

A nipple is visible.

(Okay, now it is definately a no-no...)

The other nipple is not visible because something is in the way.

(Doesn't change anything yet.)

She is holding a baby to the obscured breast to suckle.

(Now, by all that is right and holy, this should make it legit all by itself, but America has some pretty sick and twisted attitudes about breast feeding...)

She is seated on a throne (not an euphemism, we won't go there)

(Still doen't change things as far as the d20 license goes...)

She is Isis, and the baby is Pharoh.

This is a real world depiction of a real world Goddess(*), and WoTC wants to say it is not allowed? Now we have religious descrimination to go with the sex discrimination.

(*) Yes I am aware that there are not nearly as many Isis worshipers now as there was 20 or 30 centuries ago, but that is irrelevant.

WoTC needs to withdraw this change immediately.

What are you two smoking?TSR alway has been a rules nazi company.

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Um, what is who smoking?

The company you refer to no longer exists. WotC is not TSR. And though I have seen wizards pull some lame brained things, I really must repeat my insistence that given their behavior, WotC has been above the board when it has come to OGL and SRD issues.

I was there for Rob Repp. I know TSR. And WotC is no TSR. The d20 STL and OGL are exactly the opposite of TSR's exhibited behavior.

Harlock said:

I hate to be the jerk that gets scowled at if I am wrong, but does a mod mind checking the credentials on this fellow? Thing is, I've seen AV post here before and so he should have registered before today and have more than this lone post. Unless of course he simply forgot his password or something and just created a new account rather than waiting for the email with his password to arrive, in which case I gladly apologize.

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Yeah its me I'm trying to standardize to ACValterra (which I use on my own site). I used Zulkir when I was with WotC and felt I should change.
AV

The Sigil said:

From my observation (as a publisher), WotC has only made "nasty changes" to the d20STL when someone starts trying to push the boundaries.

Now granted, I'm not a fan of WotC and their "selective enforcement" policy... but basically, every time the license has changed, it's been in response to someone taking the letter of the license and running as far as they think they can from the spirit of it.

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I disagree. Not every time. One of the first license changes came after a third party started producing (or announced intentions to produce) minatures which included d20 stats about each fig. I thought this was a semi-cool idea. Then WotC changed the license to forbid this because they were going to produce their own line of miniatures.

I don't believe that third party company (can't even remember the name) had crossed the line or intentionally tried to push the boundaries away from the spirit of the license. I certainly don't think they deserved to be steam-rollered the way they were.

I believe that some of the changes to the license were justified (like the copy-cat core rulebook thing). I believe the miniatures one was to prevent competition. I believe the quality one is just a punative tantrum.

-Dave

Psion said:

That aside, it is WotC's call on what image they wish to project with their trademark, not yours. And I doubt they will be calling on you to fill the position anytime soon.

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and with pierced nipples on the cover of the Fiend Folio, several pictures of graphic gore and violence in many WOTC books, and pretty much the whole of the BoVD, all we can surmise is that WOTC doesn't mind projecting this image -- they just seem reluctant to let anyone else in the d20 market project it.

d4 said:

and with pierced nipples on the cover of the Fiend Folio, several pictures of graphic gore and violence in many WOTC books, and pretty much the whole of the BoVD, all we can surmise is that WOTC doesn't mind projecting this image -- they just seem reluctant to let anyone else in the d20 market project it.

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And once again, for those who can't be bothered to read my past posts, it is apparent to me that different people were at the helm when those books were printed.

Even if so, the BoVD is orders of magnitude less... um, daring than BoEF, so this argument is a non-starter from multiple perspectives.

Psion said:

And once again, for those who can't be bothered to read my past posts, it is apparent to me that different people were at the helm when those books were printed.

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i am aware of that. and as i have said in a past post on this thread, to avoid the appearance of hypocrisy, WOTC needs to clean up their own act. pulling the BoVD from shelves would be a good start IMO.

Psion said:

Even if so, the BoVD is orders of magnitude less... um, daring than BoEF, so this argument is a non-starter from multiple perspectives.

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speak for yourself. myself, i am much more offended by the BoVD than what i've seen of the BoEF.

d4 said:

speak for yourself. myself, i am much more offended by the BoVD than what i've seen of the BoEF.

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Well, much as I had to tell felon, it is WotC's call, not yours, as to which image they find more objectionable for their trademark.