Christians and DnD

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The point wasn't really to sway anyone's opinions. Presumably the users of this board are not the same people that would have his opinion. I don't really care if they listen, either (or should I be devastated that stupid people will want to stay stupid?). It's just... funny.

adriayna said:
I had a writer tackle the topic a while back. He looked at the history of christianity and D&D, as well as possible implications of this whole issue:

http://www.silven.com/articles.asp?case=show&id=70

Having firsthand experience with the subject, I'd have to say that these people aren't going to listen to anything we may say here on the boards. Its fun to talk about it and know that we think they are wrong, but when it really comes down to it, their minds are already made up. Any evidence we can present them of the contrary is not ever going to change those minds.
 

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Zappo said:
It's not that any given religion is "bad". It's extremism that is bad. It doesn't really matter what one is an extremist of.

I think what people call 'extremism' is the only real form of belief. Far to many religions try to soften thier message to get more belivers in the modern era. It is almost as bad as sqeemish people who pick and choose parts of religeons that don't go against thier spineless modernism. I don't want to think of just how irate gods get when people invoke them and then fail to give proper sacrifices.

If a holy text says "suffer not a witch/sorcerer to live" then there should be no debate.
 
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dualistic said:
First, read this comic:

Please no. I hate these Tracts. I remember seeing these when I was in college. Never has a man been so full of hate as Chick.

Yes, I am a Christian. I'm raising my kids in the church. As someone else said here a dozen times - there is a difference between fantasy and reality, and the number of morons and whacko's is, i think, pretty consistent accross subcultures.

But on a more serious note: I have found that over the years, roleplaying games have been a valuable tool for me, and some of my friends. They give us an opportunity to try on behaviours, and create fiction. Fiction's "societal purpose" - I believe - is more than just entertainment - it's purpose is to create a safe space for the exploration of boundaries in the human condition.

I know far more about the nature of evil, my own reactions to it, my own beliefs, and how to deal with others, from RPGs, than I would if I was living in a cave somewhere reading the bible 8 hours a day.
 

dualistic said:
The point wasn't really to sway anyone's opinions. Presumably the users of this board are not the same people that would have his opinion. I don't really care if they listen, either (or should I be devastated that stupid people will want to stay stupid?). It's just... funny.
Ah. Well, welcome to the boards. You probably were unaware, but Jack Chick is almost legendary in D&D circles, and he comes up, as a discussion topic, every few weeks/months. Chick's 'tracts' as he refers to them, attack the perceived ills of all sorts of things, D&D just being one of them. They are unintentionally hilarious, of course.

If you're ever looking for material to counter Chick to present to non-gamers, we can offer plenty of suggestions, such as the CAR-RPGA site and others. You'll find a diverse set of religions represented at ENWorld, including more than a few Christians of different stripes, such as Mormons, Southern Baptists, Protestants, Lutherans and Catholics, to name a few. You'll also find Buddhists, Wiccan, neo-Pagans, muslims, Jews, and a Shintoist or two, at the very least.
 

Turanil said:
[RANT MODE]
Can anyone see that the guy may be Christian, may be American, may be a scrawny nerd, may be anything you want, his attacks against D&D are strictly related to his mental illness. The fact that he uses the Christian faith as a justification to his sayings is irrelevant IMO.

Well, first, to be picky, let me clarify that its not a matter of whether others "see" it but whether they agree... I myself cannot agree that Chick's christianity is irrelevant to his rantings, or that what he does and says are "strictly" (that is, exclusivley) the product of mental illness.

Just to clarify in advance and hopefully keep myself out of the mod-house dog-house, nothing I say here should be taken to mean that I think christianity does or should endorse, teach, lead to or spring from the things that Jack Chick says are christian. Religion is a wonderfully diverse thing even within one denomination and you can find christians on both sides (if not three or four) of any major issue of social or political contention now or in history.

That said, from a long and mildly obsessed following of the works of Mr. Chick, I can say with confidence that his rants on this subject and most others have everything to do with his christianity.

Don't get me wrong, you'll get no argument here that the guy has some serious issues. He sees himself as being under direct attack from a very real and anthropomorphic Satan and his little minions (does the "little minions" pantamime from Black Adder) who he thinks personally gave him a stroke. He believes in a conspiracy theory so vast and interconnected it beggars the imagination of people who love to play Illuminate. And he has some serious issues with women. HOWEVER, he works from within a self consistant and predictable worldveiw that is linked directly to his christian faith. He will not tommorrow start putting out tracks about flouridation of water sterilizing us, or radio transmitters in our fillings. He will not change his mind and say that its really all about the aliens and not the antichrist. And he was not equally likely to go dwn one of those other tracks to begin with.

Jack Chick is a hardcore hardline protestant with a fair amount of obsession and paranioa. While he takes things to extremes and goes a bit more literal with the evil spirits than many others, the roots of his rantings, ravings, insults and delusions almost all can be found in one form or another in old fashioned american protestantism, the writings of Martin Luther or the bible itself.

Is he a nut? He's not screaming this stuff on a street corner, here, he has an incredibly productive publishing business which he built from the ground up. Does he have issues? Sure. Does he speak for True Christianity? Of course not. But he speaks as a christian, whom many other christians will no doubt disagree with, not as an irrational madman who happens to link his insane ramblings to Jesus.

Kahuna Burger (owner of a disturbingly large Chick Tract collection as well as the issue of The Imp dedicated to a history and anaylsis of his work)
 

francisca said:
Please clarify. It seems you are applying a negative stereotype to sports fans. I'm willing to bet you didn't mean it that way, but your post seems to paint sport fans as idiots who neglect family, religion, and their jobs, all in the name of fandom.

However, the point is well taken that being a fanatic about <you name it>, can impact other aspects of your life in a negative manner.
I am not speaking for or clarifying FC's post, but I totally see what he is saying. There are many people with an unhealthy dedication to a particular sport, like Nascar, for example. Not everyone by any stretch of the imagination, but I have seen quite a few fanatics that go beyond making their cars look like Nascar shrines. And there are people who roleplay in ways that are unhealthy. I had to drop two players because they wanted to spend all of their free time roleplaying, they had no other social lives and virtually lived in the rpg world, one of these people has gone and immersed himself totally into Dark Age of Camelot, losing even his job even due to the game.

There will always be a fringe group of people who take any popular hobby,sport, religion, etc to extremes, their antics often making the rest of the people involved look rather bad. The best exercise is to regard each individual as an individual and not lump the one into the many. I know not every Nascar fan is rabid about autoracing, but some are, same with football, baseball and DnD. Where there are always people ready to villify our interest in rpgs, I would hope that most people here can see past the few bad apples inherent in any given popular endeavor.

hellbender
 

As a Christian I find nearly everything(ok everything) on Chicks site to be evil. In the name of God he slams everyone. He hates everyone and frankly everyone is going to be slow roasting in hell. Unless you find God then you are good to go no matter what you have done. Read his tracks on Roman Catholicism...Islam...Judaeism...Halloween is a favorite of mine. He is intolerant and hateful. At some point he missed the love thy neighbors as thy self section of the bible and went screaming towards the brimstone section. His beliefs are shared by a very low percentage of true christians. Mainly because we live in a diverse world. Frankly I think that faith (in Christ, Allah, the Goddess or whomever) keeps people together. If you boil down all the major religions you will see they basically say the same thing....Be nice to each other.


B
 

FCWesel said:
Well, extreme or fanatical sports fans DO do that, yes. And since we were talking about "extremes"...

Fair enough! I think millions of sports fanatics letting other aspects of there lives going down the tubes is probably a big exaggeration, but I think we're barking up the same tree.

FCWesel said:
Yet, sports (even sports like poker, which I love to watch and play) is okay where D&D is the devil's tool...
FC (and hellbender), the point of my reply was to point out that stererotyping sports fans (or whatever) is no better than the grand misrepresentation of D&D by Chick and others of his ilk. But, as FC pointed out, he was just referring to those who take to extremes, so I'm cool with that.
 

Ah, Chick. Always a shock for gamers when they first discover him.

If you have not, I also recommend the MST3K Dark Dungeons site for a little levity:
http://www.fecundity.com/cgi-bin/darkdung.pl?page=2

I am a Christian. But Chick and his ilk tell me I'm not, so I am not particularly interested in what he has to say.

I do suffer bouts of aggravation when some folks assume that Chick speaks for me. Something that I am quick to disclaim.
 

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