What exactly makes Math hard to some people?

Tetsubo · Nov 25, 2004

I, am bad at math. Always have been. I find it frustrating. I actually encounter a need for math fairly regularly.

One thing I noticed back in High School. I was very bad at algebra but I enjoyed geometry. I had a math teacher (dating my mother) tell me that that is common. If you think well in algebra you don't deal with geometry well and vice versa.

I am also a bad speller though I have a large verbal vocabulary and know how to use it.

OK, it just seems that my brain is faulty...

tarchon · Nov 25, 2004

"Math is hard!" - Barbie

Impeesa · Nov 26, 2004

In my experience, which seems to agree with many others', people just refuse to think. However, this isn't as incomprehensible as some hardcore logical scientist types make it out to be. It's human nature, when confronted with something new, to look for opinions in three places: previous experience, someone else's word, and actual deduction - in that order. Say there's a movie playing, and I want to form an opinion on it. If I liked the last one in the series, I'll assume I'll like this one until proven otherwise. If there's no track record to go on, I'll ask a friend who saw it, and trust their opinion until proven otherwise. Eventually, I might actually see the movie, at which point I'll form an opinion on my own. But here's another example: when I looked at the picture of an equation that die_kluge posted on the first page, my thought process went something like this:

1) I do not understand that.
2) That is insane. I hate you.
3) Wait, there's nothing really crazy there. Maybe I can recognize some of it.
4) Hm, sum of sine waves, with some arbitrary but related amplitudes, frequencies, and phase shifts. Maybe some kind of harmonic structure, or some random Fourier series.

Now, the first two steps are based on simple deduction. Upon reaching step three, though - analogous to anyone being introduced to an unfamiliar math concept - it is easier to trust popular opinion (math is hard, it's okay to not get it). It's higher up on the hierarchy than looking at it and thinking about it for a minute. Some people are willing to invest a little extra mental effort for the sake of curiosity or completeness, whatever motivates them - others won't bother, and will just become frustrated that there's no easier way over the hump.

--Impeesa--

Heretic Apostate · Nov 26, 2004

I rate in the top 2% of people in the nation in math. I've tutored math off and on for about ten years. I can do most lower-level math (say, up to about midway through first-year calculus) in my head.

What does this mean? A whole lot of nothing.

The fact that I was the best student in math the year I graduated, out of the thousand graduating seniors in my county, just meant that I was average as a math major. I struggled to keep my scores above a B average, because while I was good at the applied mathematics, I absolutely sucked at the theoretical stuff. (I still want to go back and retry calculus of complex numbers, though it seemed more of an art form than a science... If anyone knows of a decent, in-print textbook, let me know at napamathguy at yahoo.com, okay?)

Different people are good at different things. That doesn't mean I'm smarter than most of the people I know, it just means that I'm better in one area, while worse than a lot of people in other areas...

Tinker Gnome · Nov 26, 2004

Impeesa said:
In my experience, which seems to agree with many others', people just refuse to think. However, this isn't as incomprehensible as some hardcore logical scientist types make it out to be. It's human nature, when confronted with something new, to look for opinions in three places: previous experience, someone else's word, and actual deduction - in that order. Say there's a movie playing, and I want to form an opinion on it. If I liked the last one in the series, I'll assume I'll like this one until proven otherwise. If there's no track record to go on, I'll ask a friend who saw it, and trust their opinion until proven otherwise. Eventually, I might actually see the movie, at which point I'll form an opinion on my own. But here's another example: when I looked at the picture of an equation that die_kluge posted on the first page, my thought process went something like this:

1) I do not understand that.
2) That is insane. I hate you.
3) Wait, there's nothing really crazy there. Maybe I can recognize some of it.
4) Hm, sum of sine waves, with some arbitrary but related amplitudes, frequencies, and phase shifts. Maybe some kind of harmonic structure, or some random Fourier series.

Now, the first two steps are based on simple deduction. Upon reaching step three, though - analogous to anyone being introduced to an unfamiliar math concept - it is easier to trust popular opinion (math is hard, it's okay to not get it). It's higher up on the hierarchy than looking at it and thinking about it for a minute. Some people are willing to invest a little extra mental effort for the sake of curiosity or completeness, whatever motivates them - others won't bother, and will just become frustrated that there's no easier way over the hump.

--Impeesa--

Hmm, I thinkt hat is very true. I was basically told that it was in the family line(even though I am adopted) to be bad at math. My father being the exception.

Brennin Magalus · Nov 26, 2004

Anyone who complains that "math is too hard" needs to be given copies of Walter Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis and Gerald Folland's Real Analysis : Modern Techniques and Their Applications.

WayneLigon · Nov 26, 2004

I did terrible in high school math. I made D-minuses and those probably because they did not want to outright fail me since I did well in everything else. The trouble started in 4rth and 5th grade when I had a teacher that, looking back on it later, was very probably crazy to some degree. I 'lost' those years and that was when we did a lot of basics that I never 'got' afterwards. I had tutors for the last four years of high school and all they did was basically keep me from failing outright, save for geometry which I liked and did well in.

Strange that in college I got a C taking the same stuff for the 'basic math' part, then I had a lot of statistics courses since I was in business and IS; I got A's on those. To get out of the program, I had to take Intro to Calculus, and I got a high B in that. So I'm not sure what shook loose, save that most of the examples and problems seemed to have more application. Not sure.

Christopher Lambert · Nov 28, 2004

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
...the easy way is getting a nice graphic calculater and just plugging in the formula and hitting the 'Factor' button

Those aren't allowed in tests, however.

Impeesa said:
In my experience, which seems to agree with many others', people just refuse to think.

That's more than a little insulting, don't you think? There's a reason why more people have trouble with math than other subjects, even people who do think, which is pretty much everybody.

Heretic Apostate said:
I rate in the top 2% of people in the nation in math. I've tutored math off and on for about ten years. I can do most lower-level math (say, up to about midway through first-year calculus) in my head.

What does this mean? A whole lot of nothing.

I thinki I got an 83 percentile in math when I did the PSAT. Again, it didn't mean a thing.

Brennin Magalus said:
Anyone who complains that "math is too hard" needs to be given copies of Walter Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis and Gerald Folland's Real Analysis : Modern Techniques and Their Applications.

Why aren't these books available in schools?

Heretic Apostate · Nov 28, 2004

Christopher Lambert said:
Why aren't these books available in schools?

I checked on Amazon, and the latest edition of the first book was something like the mid 80s (unless I was missing something...).

Which would make it odd if it WAS still available for classes. Most classroom textbooks are redone every couple of years, to limit the used-book market (excuse me, I meant to say, "to keep the subject material relevant"...).

Ankh-Morpork Guard · Nov 28, 2004

Christopher Lambert said:
Those aren't allowed in tests, however.

At both High Schools I went to, they were. Of course, I don't know if most of the teachers knew that they had 'Factor' built in, but we were GIVEN calculators for nearly every test.

What exactly makes Math hard to some people?

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