Evilhalfling
Adventurer
Originally Posted by WinnipegDragon
Amen to that.
howandwhy99 said:
Amen to that.
-
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- Thread starter carpedavid
- Start date
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
WinnipegDragon said:
At the risk of helping some other uppity newbie topple the reigning champ, here's how I generally go about crafting my entry. Total time is usually about 4-5 hours. (That's actually a pretty significant chunk of time to invest, considering most folks work all day and like to sleep at least 7 hours.)
Anyhow:
1) I put all the ingredients at the top of a page to begin taking brainstorming notes.*
2) I look for any common theme that immediately jumps out.
The monk and the impossibly high wall linked pretty quickly, as did the foxglove (poison). Usually, whatever immediately links up ends up forming the plot, the antagonist, and/or the setting. The other elements are then woven in as details to support that first, most obvious link.
3) Google anything you don't know front and back, and a few things you do.
Googling foxglove helped me a lot. I found out more than I knew about its effects. I also found out that it tends to grow in the cracks of mortar. I also found a quote on one page that was very cool and evocative: Gerard recommends it to those 'who have fallen from high places'
4) Run to the SRD and search it for all d20 terms.
In my case this included looking up the mohrg, the monk class, darkwood, and instability. I couldn't find instability in the SRD, but I knew I had seen it before in a monster. Gibbering mouther? Nope. Chaos beast? Aha.
I also found out that darkwood wasn't really suitable for making a dagger-- you can really only use darkwood for things that normally contain some wooden component. Since I was already having trouble working a dagger into my entry, I started thinking outside the box.
5) Use Dictionary.com to look up trouble words.
And by trouble, I mean anything that doesn't seem like it's fitting as well as you'd like. I looked up instability as well as, believe it or not, dagger. The purpose here is to see if there's some obscure use of a particular word that might work better than its most obvious or literal meaning.
6) Sleep on it.
By this time I've done about all the research I can on the ingredients, and all that's left to do is just let it ruminate. See if it all comes together. This part of the process has its downside, as it usually keeps me from getting a good night's rest. I have to keep a pencil and pad nearby to jot down anything that starts to click-- or, worse yet, I bolt out of bed and head for the computer. This can have a deleterious effect on your relationship with your sleeping partner.
7) Start writing.
This process usually takes me 2 hours or so, 3 hours if I am really struggling.
Don't try to include statblocks or DCs. They don't add enough to the strength of your entry to warrant the extra time.
On the other hand, if you want to introduce an interesting new mechanic that supports your entry, do so. (Assuming it's well designed, of course.)
Just write. Get the story down. Provide the minimum background necessary to support the entry. Don't give away the farm in the background-- keep the judge reading. If the entry builds to a climax, as you'd hope it actually plays out, that's best.
Provide some reasonable hooks, but don't obsess over it. Some players are just stubborn bastards who feel it's their duty not to be 'hooked' or to justify reasons for their PCs not to get involved; but you know, the more you worry about how to hook the stubborn bastards, the more your entry is going to seem like a railroad. So provide some reasonable hooks, and just give a nod to that limited set of alternates outside of 'killing the bad guys and taking their stuff.'
Provide as many places as possible for the PCs to actually DO something, and that "something" they should "DO" is definitely "interact/see/touch/smell/hear/feel/kill/loot/ or kick-in-the-junk as many of the ingredients as possible.
Don't treat your entry like a story that is going to unfold inevitably. If your entry can resolve itself without the intervention of the PCs, you've got a problem.
8) Post the entry.
All of your prior work should have been done in Word. Now post it up on ENworld, and preview, preview, preview. Don't hit submit until it is formatted properly and you've read it 2 or 3 or even 4 times to make sure it all makes sense. This is your last chance to fix it.
9) Click Submit.
-----
*For those who are actually interested, here's the complete, exact text of my brainstorming notes:
nonamazing
Explorer
I think Wulf's advice is rather good. I can see ways in which my entry would have been quite a bit better if I'd been following a plan like his.
I'm really anticipating the judgement. Whatever happens, I've certainly had a lot of fun with this--the contest gave me the motivation to try something I wouldn't have ordinarily done.
I tend to be quite self-critical, so as I look back over my entry, I can see quite a few mistakes. Of course, there are some assorted grammatical and spelling errors, a couple of annoying typos, but I kind of expected that: I was rushing, and I'm not a very good proofread of my own work (I get bored and start to glaze over parts). You can see how the entry becomes more rushed in the second half, and there are a few minor but annoying plot holes that I should have taken the effort to sew up.
But my entry's biggest flaw, I think, lies in my use of the ingrediants. I think I tried to make the story too 'big' (bringing in various setting specific elements), and that, in turn, distracts from the ingrediants, which should be the core focus of the adventure. In particular, I think howandwhy's use of the mithril spear was much stronger than mine, plotwise. In retrospect, I should have pared the story down, made it simpler, and concentrated on bringing the ingrediants into shaper resolve.
Make no mistake: I'm proud of my entry. Proud of it, that is, as an early first draft. But I recognize that it is weak in several ways, particularly in aspects that this contest directly relates to. I'm not going to complain, though, 'cause it was really a lot of fun. Well, not only writing my entry, but also reading the other entires and judgements. This whole thread is a crazy stewpot of creativity, and I consider myself lucky to have been a part of it.
I'm really anticipating the judgement. Whatever happens, I've certainly had a lot of fun with this--the contest gave me the motivation to try something I wouldn't have ordinarily done.
I tend to be quite self-critical, so as I look back over my entry, I can see quite a few mistakes. Of course, there are some assorted grammatical and spelling errors, a couple of annoying typos, but I kind of expected that: I was rushing, and I'm not a very good proofread of my own work (I get bored and start to glaze over parts). You can see how the entry becomes more rushed in the second half, and there are a few minor but annoying plot holes that I should have taken the effort to sew up.
But my entry's biggest flaw, I think, lies in my use of the ingrediants. I think I tried to make the story too 'big' (bringing in various setting specific elements), and that, in turn, distracts from the ingrediants, which should be the core focus of the adventure. In particular, I think howandwhy's use of the mithril spear was much stronger than mine, plotwise. In retrospect, I should have pared the story down, made it simpler, and concentrated on bringing the ingrediants into shaper resolve.
Make no mistake: I'm proud of my entry. Proud of it, that is, as an early first draft. But I recognize that it is weak in several ways, particularly in aspects that this contest directly relates to. I'm not going to complain, though, 'cause it was really a lot of fun. Well, not only writing my entry, but also reading the other entires and judgements. This whole thread is a crazy stewpot of creativity, and I consider myself lucky to have been a part of it.
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
That was great Wulf -
Whoever is in charge of the IDM archive site should save his post.
my process was similar, but a little more time double checking rules and proofreading would have been helpful. And finstead of sleeping on it - I just need some time away - like actually doing a job, going to class etc.
Whoever is in charge of the IDM archive site should save his post.
my process was similar, but a little more time double checking rules and proofreading would have been helpful. And finstead of sleeping on it - I just need some time away - like actually doing a job, going to class etc.
carpedavid
First Post
Round 1, Match 5: Nonamazing vs. Howandwhy99
In this match we have nonamazing vs. howandwhy99. If you haven't read their entries, well... you know the drill by now. Both contestants have a similar premise. An undead general, whose indecision at a critical moment was responsible for the deaths of his troops, somehow gets the PCs to accompany him on a quest for redemption. Which version is better? Let's take a look.
We'll begin with the ingredient use this time, and we'll start with the Mithril Spear. Nonamazing tosses it in as the weapon of an NPC, and provides little justification for the spear's essential qualities. As used, it could be any sort of weapon, from a sword, to a trident, to a holy hand grenade.
He then suggests that the Krenshar living in the area be given a damage reduction of 10/mithril because of an unnaturally thick hide. Huh? Mithril is a strong as steel, but lighter. It's no harder than a normal blade – that's what adamantine is for. Though all mithril weapons are supposed to be masterwork, this would give the party no more of an advantage than if they had normal masterwork weapons. It's an improper use of the material and a poor use of the ingredient in general.
Howandwhy99, by contrast, uses the spear as the sole hook into the adventure. It's the weapon of his Undead General, who once commanded a legion while a citizen of a Romanesque culture. Thematically, the spear fits the ancient culture quite well. Howandwhy99 even provides us with a justification for the mithril quality: its superiority to the bronze weapons of the day gave the general a distinct advantage. Unlike Nonamazing's use of damage reduction, this actually works, since mithril is supposed to be as strong as steel. Could the general's spear been made out of steel? Yes, but, mechanically, the mithril is at least used properly. Right out of the gate, HW99 takes the lead.
Since I've mentioned the Undead General, we'll look at that next. Both contestants use the ingredient equally well. Nonamazing's general who commands undead is an unexpected interpretation, but one that's perfectly valid from the way I presented the ingredient. Howandwhy99's general who is undead, on the other hand, is more of a conventional interpretation. Both contestants use their respective generals as the motivating factor, which is about what I expected. I'll return to both contestants' generals when I get to the discussion of playability and design, but neither contestant gains any ground at the moment.
Let's look at Indecision next. In both entries, the general's indecision causes the death of his troops at some point during the back story. During the course of the adventure, the PCs will have to deal with the repercussions of that personality defect in different ways. Nonamazing's general overcompensates for his indecision by becoming the living equivalent of a caffeine molecule that's been abusing the amphetamines. He's rash, can't sit still, and, apparently, can't stop talking. I'm tempted to say that a complete reversal of an ingredient doesn't qualify as a use of the ingredient, but I think it just squeaks in under the radar.
Howandwhy's use of the ingredient is more traditional. His indecisive ghost has to be prodded to help the party, and the spear from which he manifests carries a curse which effectively makes the weapon unsure about whether it wants to be functional. Neither use really impresses, so neither contestant makes up any ground with this one.
Next is the Killing Fields. Again, both contestants have very similar uses. Both successfully give this ingredient a double meaning. In both cases, the ingredient fills the role of the fields where their respective generals' troops perished. Nonamazing imbues his fields with a magical effect that slowly saps the party's strength through fear. Howandwhy99 fills his with undead that set upon any living being who enters.
Both also create a mitigating factor that allows the PCs to navigate through the area. In Nonamazing's entry, the Mithril Spear possesses an aura that suppresses the lingering fear effect of the fields. Howandwhy99's mitigating factor is the Undead General himself. His undead troops still dislike him so much that they're willing to turn their backs on him, and ignore the PCs in the process. Here, I think HW99's use is somewhat stronger, since his mitigating factor is tied more closely to the plot.
Next we have the Krenshar. In Nonamazing's adventure, the krenshar is thematically tied to the Mournland through fear. Beyond that, they're not really tied into the adventure, other than to be defeated by the conveniently-placed mithril spear. HW99 employs the fear-causing quality of the krenshar as well, once as the causal agent of Cordis' indecision, and once again as the goal to overcome in order to redeem the undead general. As with the previous ingredient, I think HW99's use is stronger.
Finally, we have the Rosemary. HW99 very nearly hides this ingredient in the background. It is used by his protagonist as a personal symbol (and here, HW99 gives us the reason for the selection of this particular herb - it is indeed traditionally employed as a symbol of fidelity), but the PCs don't manage to interact with it until the resolution of the story. Even then, unless they've really been paying attention, they may not have any idea what to do with it. In fact, HW99 goes to the extreme of having the ghost weave his own crown, and then ask the PCs to crown him, if they haven't picked up on the significance of the ingredient. I'd like to have seen in employed as a way to cause the ghost to manifest, for example; something tangible that the PCs would interact with throughout.
Nonamazing describes a necromantic herb called black rosemary that curiously sounds absolutely nothing like real rosemary. Rosemary is an evergreen shrub. It grows to a height of 3 to 5 feet (in nice climates - here, you have to take it in during the winter). Now, I understand that it's a necromantic version of the herb, so grey leaves work for me, but "small clumps" sounds like thyme or oregano, not rosemary. If I can't tell what it is from your description, then it certainly doesn't meet the standard of describing the ingredient's essential qualities.
Ok, at this point, Howandwhy99 has a definite lead over Nonamazing. Can he maintain this lead through the analysis of playability and design? Let's find out. Nonamazing presents us with the most standard hook in the whole of hookdom: money. A powerful NPCs hires the PCs do something dangerous, for which they'll be richly rewarded. He manages to elevate the hook, though, by giving some nice concrete examples of what the general has to offer other than gold. The offer to intervene in the political scene is especially nice, since it's not something you often see as a reward in adventures.
Once the PCs take the bait, they pretty much just have to hold on as they're swept though the adventure. Let me digress for a moment to talk about adventure layout. There are multiple types of layouts for an adventure. Most adventures have a main goal, and possibly several sub-goals. In a linear design, the steps necessary to achieve the main goal are laid out in a sequential manner. They may be made clear at the outset, or revealed as the adventure progresses. In other words, the group progresses from step one, to step two, to step three, and so on. Usually, the steps get more challenging as the adventure progresses.
In a hub design, the steps to achieve said goal are laid out like the outer planes in the great wheel cosmology. The "goal" is at the center, and the PCs have to travel out to each step and back. The steps usually don't have to be completed in any particular order, though a sophisticated design might give bonuses of some sort for completing them in an optimal order. In this type of design, the encounters really don't increase in power as the PCs progress.
More complex designs might have encounters that are interconnected in various ways, and which change, emerge, or disappear entirely as the PCs progress. At any rate, no one design is ultimately better than another. The design which is best for you is the one that is best for your group. Some groups always want the goals to be nebulous and the future uncertain, while some like to always know what they're supposed to do next. Most groups, I think, like a combination. My group, for example, enjoys the complex, investigative type of adventures, but finds the occasional, straight forward quest to be refreshing.
That said, in any type of adventure, the PCs need to feel like they are the protagonists. This is not to say that you shouldn't have active antagonists. Certainly, active antagonists increase the immersion factor, and make the PCs feel like they're living in an organic world. In Nonamazing's adventure, though, General L feels like the protagonist, not the PCs. He is the driving force of the adventure, and, short of telling him to bugger off and go home, they have no choice as to how to proceed.
Even in a linear adventure, the PCs should be able to choose how they interact with the world, but the way this adventure is written, it doesn't feel like they have much choice. Could it be rewritten to remedy this problem? I think so.
HW99's adventure, on the other hand, suffers from precisely the opposite problem. The whole adventure is predicated on the PCs prodding Cordis to act. I don't know about you, but unless the treasure at Messalina is pretty darn impressive, and unless the undead general can actually take us to it, I'm chucking that useless spear into a lake. Howandwhy99's linear adventure feels like an exercise in frustration.
First, I have to find out what the spear that won't hit anything and that I randomly found in some treasure pile does. Then I have to coax the ghost who lives inside to come out and talk to me. Next, I have to convince him to take me to the city that he doesn't want to go to. Once I'm there, I have to get him to come out somehow, or I get torn apart by thousands of undead. Finally, I have to overcome the challenge that he was too cowardly to fight in the first place for him, and then I have to weave him a crown made of rosemary. After all of that, the stupid git gets to go enjoy the afterlife, and I still don't have any treasure.
At about this point, I would expect the dice to get thrown. Additionally, HW99 provides us with an extremely detailed background and myth, and then basically tells us to fill in the details of the adventure on our own. Sure, he provides us with the final encounter, but nearly everything up to that is left up to the DM. A note to all competitors: when the background portion of your entry is as long as the adventure portion of your entry, you need to go back and revise.
I have a feeling that HW99 focused on integrating the ingredients at the expense of the encounters. I know that, as someone who enjoys writing fiction, it's a problem that I often face. One thing that I try to keep in mind is that what happens before an adventure isn't nearly as important as what happens during the adventure. Before you spend a lot of time detailing that fateful battle, stop to ask yourself the following: do those details provide the party with a useful clue or means of advancing the plot? If the answer is no, then summarize. Background is neat, but it's ultimately the actions of the characters that the players will remember.
Ok, so who won? Well, HW99 had the stronger ingredient use and provides us with a detailed background, but then he gives us a bare outline of an adventure. Nonamazing, despite fairly weak ingredient use and a plot that borders on railroading, gives us an actual adventure to work with. <spoiler: highlight to read>
</spoiler>.
In this match we have nonamazing vs. howandwhy99. If you haven't read their entries, well... you know the drill by now. Both contestants have a similar premise. An undead general, whose indecision at a critical moment was responsible for the deaths of his troops, somehow gets the PCs to accompany him on a quest for redemption. Which version is better? Let's take a look.
We'll begin with the ingredient use this time, and we'll start with the Mithril Spear. Nonamazing tosses it in as the weapon of an NPC, and provides little justification for the spear's essential qualities. As used, it could be any sort of weapon, from a sword, to a trident, to a holy hand grenade.
He then suggests that the Krenshar living in the area be given a damage reduction of 10/mithril because of an unnaturally thick hide. Huh? Mithril is a strong as steel, but lighter. It's no harder than a normal blade – that's what adamantine is for. Though all mithril weapons are supposed to be masterwork, this would give the party no more of an advantage than if they had normal masterwork weapons. It's an improper use of the material and a poor use of the ingredient in general.
Howandwhy99, by contrast, uses the spear as the sole hook into the adventure. It's the weapon of his Undead General, who once commanded a legion while a citizen of a Romanesque culture. Thematically, the spear fits the ancient culture quite well. Howandwhy99 even provides us with a justification for the mithril quality: its superiority to the bronze weapons of the day gave the general a distinct advantage. Unlike Nonamazing's use of damage reduction, this actually works, since mithril is supposed to be as strong as steel. Could the general's spear been made out of steel? Yes, but, mechanically, the mithril is at least used properly. Right out of the gate, HW99 takes the lead.
Since I've mentioned the Undead General, we'll look at that next. Both contestants use the ingredient equally well. Nonamazing's general who commands undead is an unexpected interpretation, but one that's perfectly valid from the way I presented the ingredient. Howandwhy99's general who is undead, on the other hand, is more of a conventional interpretation. Both contestants use their respective generals as the motivating factor, which is about what I expected. I'll return to both contestants' generals when I get to the discussion of playability and design, but neither contestant gains any ground at the moment.
Let's look at Indecision next. In both entries, the general's indecision causes the death of his troops at some point during the back story. During the course of the adventure, the PCs will have to deal with the repercussions of that personality defect in different ways. Nonamazing's general overcompensates for his indecision by becoming the living equivalent of a caffeine molecule that's been abusing the amphetamines. He's rash, can't sit still, and, apparently, can't stop talking. I'm tempted to say that a complete reversal of an ingredient doesn't qualify as a use of the ingredient, but I think it just squeaks in under the radar.
Howandwhy's use of the ingredient is more traditional. His indecisive ghost has to be prodded to help the party, and the spear from which he manifests carries a curse which effectively makes the weapon unsure about whether it wants to be functional. Neither use really impresses, so neither contestant makes up any ground with this one.
Next is the Killing Fields. Again, both contestants have very similar uses. Both successfully give this ingredient a double meaning. In both cases, the ingredient fills the role of the fields where their respective generals' troops perished. Nonamazing imbues his fields with a magical effect that slowly saps the party's strength through fear. Howandwhy99 fills his with undead that set upon any living being who enters.
Both also create a mitigating factor that allows the PCs to navigate through the area. In Nonamazing's entry, the Mithril Spear possesses an aura that suppresses the lingering fear effect of the fields. Howandwhy99's mitigating factor is the Undead General himself. His undead troops still dislike him so much that they're willing to turn their backs on him, and ignore the PCs in the process. Here, I think HW99's use is somewhat stronger, since his mitigating factor is tied more closely to the plot.
Next we have the Krenshar. In Nonamazing's adventure, the krenshar is thematically tied to the Mournland through fear. Beyond that, they're not really tied into the adventure, other than to be defeated by the conveniently-placed mithril spear. HW99 employs the fear-causing quality of the krenshar as well, once as the causal agent of Cordis' indecision, and once again as the goal to overcome in order to redeem the undead general. As with the previous ingredient, I think HW99's use is stronger.
Finally, we have the Rosemary. HW99 very nearly hides this ingredient in the background. It is used by his protagonist as a personal symbol (and here, HW99 gives us the reason for the selection of this particular herb - it is indeed traditionally employed as a symbol of fidelity), but the PCs don't manage to interact with it until the resolution of the story. Even then, unless they've really been paying attention, they may not have any idea what to do with it. In fact, HW99 goes to the extreme of having the ghost weave his own crown, and then ask the PCs to crown him, if they haven't picked up on the significance of the ingredient. I'd like to have seen in employed as a way to cause the ghost to manifest, for example; something tangible that the PCs would interact with throughout.
Nonamazing describes a necromantic herb called black rosemary that curiously sounds absolutely nothing like real rosemary. Rosemary is an evergreen shrub. It grows to a height of 3 to 5 feet (in nice climates - here, you have to take it in during the winter). Now, I understand that it's a necromantic version of the herb, so grey leaves work for me, but "small clumps" sounds like thyme or oregano, not rosemary. If I can't tell what it is from your description, then it certainly doesn't meet the standard of describing the ingredient's essential qualities.
Ok, at this point, Howandwhy99 has a definite lead over Nonamazing. Can he maintain this lead through the analysis of playability and design? Let's find out. Nonamazing presents us with the most standard hook in the whole of hookdom: money. A powerful NPCs hires the PCs do something dangerous, for which they'll be richly rewarded. He manages to elevate the hook, though, by giving some nice concrete examples of what the general has to offer other than gold. The offer to intervene in the political scene is especially nice, since it's not something you often see as a reward in adventures.
Once the PCs take the bait, they pretty much just have to hold on as they're swept though the adventure. Let me digress for a moment to talk about adventure layout. There are multiple types of layouts for an adventure. Most adventures have a main goal, and possibly several sub-goals. In a linear design, the steps necessary to achieve the main goal are laid out in a sequential manner. They may be made clear at the outset, or revealed as the adventure progresses. In other words, the group progresses from step one, to step two, to step three, and so on. Usually, the steps get more challenging as the adventure progresses.
In a hub design, the steps to achieve said goal are laid out like the outer planes in the great wheel cosmology. The "goal" is at the center, and the PCs have to travel out to each step and back. The steps usually don't have to be completed in any particular order, though a sophisticated design might give bonuses of some sort for completing them in an optimal order. In this type of design, the encounters really don't increase in power as the PCs progress.
More complex designs might have encounters that are interconnected in various ways, and which change, emerge, or disappear entirely as the PCs progress. At any rate, no one design is ultimately better than another. The design which is best for you is the one that is best for your group. Some groups always want the goals to be nebulous and the future uncertain, while some like to always know what they're supposed to do next. Most groups, I think, like a combination. My group, for example, enjoys the complex, investigative type of adventures, but finds the occasional, straight forward quest to be refreshing.
That said, in any type of adventure, the PCs need to feel like they are the protagonists. This is not to say that you shouldn't have active antagonists. Certainly, active antagonists increase the immersion factor, and make the PCs feel like they're living in an organic world. In Nonamazing's adventure, though, General L feels like the protagonist, not the PCs. He is the driving force of the adventure, and, short of telling him to bugger off and go home, they have no choice as to how to proceed.
Even in a linear adventure, the PCs should be able to choose how they interact with the world, but the way this adventure is written, it doesn't feel like they have much choice. Could it be rewritten to remedy this problem? I think so.
HW99's adventure, on the other hand, suffers from precisely the opposite problem. The whole adventure is predicated on the PCs prodding Cordis to act. I don't know about you, but unless the treasure at Messalina is pretty darn impressive, and unless the undead general can actually take us to it, I'm chucking that useless spear into a lake. Howandwhy99's linear adventure feels like an exercise in frustration.
First, I have to find out what the spear that won't hit anything and that I randomly found in some treasure pile does. Then I have to coax the ghost who lives inside to come out and talk to me. Next, I have to convince him to take me to the city that he doesn't want to go to. Once I'm there, I have to get him to come out somehow, or I get torn apart by thousands of undead. Finally, I have to overcome the challenge that he was too cowardly to fight in the first place for him, and then I have to weave him a crown made of rosemary. After all of that, the stupid git gets to go enjoy the afterlife, and I still don't have any treasure.
At about this point, I would expect the dice to get thrown. Additionally, HW99 provides us with an extremely detailed background and myth, and then basically tells us to fill in the details of the adventure on our own. Sure, he provides us with the final encounter, but nearly everything up to that is left up to the DM. A note to all competitors: when the background portion of your entry is as long as the adventure portion of your entry, you need to go back and revise.
I have a feeling that HW99 focused on integrating the ingredients at the expense of the encounters. I know that, as someone who enjoys writing fiction, it's a problem that I often face. One thing that I try to keep in mind is that what happens before an adventure isn't nearly as important as what happens during the adventure. Before you spend a lot of time detailing that fateful battle, stop to ask yourself the following: do those details provide the party with a useful clue or means of advancing the plot? If the answer is no, then summarize. Background is neat, but it's ultimately the actions of the characters that the players will remember.
Ok, so who won? Well, HW99 had the stronger ingredient use and provides us with a detailed background, but then he gives us a bare outline of an adventure. Nonamazing, despite fairly weak ingredient use and a plot that borders on railroading, gives us an actual adventure to work with. <spoiler: highlight to read>
Since this is an adventure writing contest, and not a fiction writing one, I have to give the match to Nonamazing
carpedavid
First Post
Tinner said:
It's kinda like seeing a therapist. But meaner
.Plus it fits in so well with the whole Iron Chef parody too. CarpeDavid, you're not a fortune teller or minor government official are you? I'm pretty sure you're not an actor or sports figure either ...
Er, I'm just a regular old web developer. Why?
carpedavid
First Post
Wulf Ratbane said:
That's eerily similar to the process I've used when creating entries. Every single one of my entries involved copious amounts of time with google. Heck, even the advenutres that I toss at my players now involve at least an hour or two of research.
Tinner
First Post
carpedavid said:
Umm ... you have watched Iron Chef before, right?
Every judge on the show is either a fortune teller, minor government official, athlete, or actor. Oh, they ocaisonally throw in a food critic too!
I never understood why the fortune teller didn't just tell them the winner before the show, and skip everything in between ...
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Ouch. Well it hurts. It seems I keep getting DQ'd from these things. (In a manner of speaking.)
Congratulations nonamazing. I like your entry and I hope you get to complete your continuing adventure. I'll try and get some exposition up later. Go get 'em in the second round.
(In a manner of speaking.)Congratulations nonamazing. I like your entry and I hope you get to complete your continuing adventure. I'll try and get some exposition up later. Go get 'em in the second round.
carpedavid
First Post
Round 1, Match 6: Warden vs. Mark
Right. Warden. Mark. Back? Good. Right off the bat, I'm going to say that this is by far, the weakest of the matchups we've seen this round. While other entries have had weaknesses that I found forgivable or understandable, both of these adventures were written by people who should know better. Accordingly, this is likely to be the most critical of the round, so if you want to avoid all the unpleasantness and just find out who won, go ahead and skip to the end. I won't blame you.
Now, while both entries were bad, they were bad in different ways. So let's dissect them and find out what went so terribly, terribly wrong. We'll begin, as I have in most of these judgments, with a comparison of ingredient use. First up is the Ectoplasmic Corset. Here, both contestants use the ingredient as a method of gaining access to the ethereal plane.
Where do I begin? In D&D, ectoplasm has a specific meaning. It is a substance drawn from the Astral Plane. As a quality added to an armor or item of some type, it allows the wearer to assume "ectoplasmic form" for a brief duration. What is ectoplasmic form? Nothing like an ethereal form! In fact, so far as I can tell, ectoplasm has nothing at all to do with the ethereal plane. The only place I can find an intersection between the two is in the description of the psionic power, ethereal cocoon, where the prison generated by said cocoon extends into the ethereal. But that's it. Stretching an ingredient to fit the adventure is a time-honored Iron DM tradition, but here, the contestants basically ignore the "ectoplasmic" quality. The ingredient they used would have been a great Ethereal Corset, but it certainly isn't an Ectoplasmic one. Neither contestant even gets off the starting line with this one.
Next let's look at Violet. Again, neither use is very strong. Mark basically hides the ingredient in his lich's statblock. If I hadn't read it carefully enough, I wouldn't have seen it at all. Moreover, the ingredient is used as the description for a disease that's disfiguring enough to drive a vain bard to lichdom, but by its stats doesn't really seem to be that bad. And what does the disease do? By the description, "Violet Veins," it sounds like it gives the user a bad case of varicose veins. Shouldn't it cause Charisma damage then?
Warden, on the other hand, uses the violet as a key to access the peaceful Eternal Keep. Though he doesn't mention it, there is a thematic connection between the violet and the peace-loving keep. Violet has been used by certain cultures to moderate anger or to induce a calming effect. I'm not sure whether this connection was intentional, but Warden nevertheless gets credit for it. He gains a little bit of ground here.
This brings us to the Ethereal Keep. In Mark's case, the keep is a lich's lair, which seems appropriate. I can certainly imagine an insane wizard taking up residence in something like this. Warden, on the other hand, creates an adventurers' retirement home in the ethereal plane, which is certainly an interesting take. Since Warden's use of this ingredient is slightly more creative, he advances ever so slightly.
Since I just mentioned the keep, I might as well tackle the Pacifism ingredient. Warden strongly ties this ingredient into the nearly every other. The pacifistic nature of the ethereal demiplane makes it an ideal retirement home for a famous swordsman who has a long list of enemies. It also justifies the summoning of a rust monster, as well, since the rust monster is much more concerned about eating metal than eating adventurers.
Mark, on the other hand, creates a series of non-violent traps (including the rust monster), and identifies the ingredient in a warning to would be intruders. Are the traps really that pacifistic though? To a group of adventurers high enough in level to take on a lich, yeah, they probably are. That CR4 mimic is about one fireball away from being shag carpeting, and that poor rust monster's best hope is to get a bite out of someone's dagger before it's pelted with arrows and magic missiles. It's not a poor use of the ingredient, but Warden's use is significantly better.
As I mentioned above, the Rust Monster is used by Mark as a means to slow down potential intruders. It's a serviceable use of the ingredient, and ties into Pacifism, but is otherwise not particularly inspired. Warden, on the other hand, justifies the summoning of the rust monsters because of their pacifistic nature (at least to non-metallic creatures), and then uses them as a means to cover his antagonist's tracks.
However, Warden states that his antagonist's goal is to steal the sword "without arousing suspicion." I'm not entirely sure how the random appearance of a set of rust monsters in this plane that is normally closed off to any but those who have a key would not arouse suspicion. Do rust monsters routinely pass through the area? Is there a "Rust Monster Crossing" sign by the main road? Even if the swordsman thought that his sword was destroyed, wouldn't he try to seek vengeance for what is obviously a deliberate act? While I was initially impressed with the use of this ingredient, on closer inspection, it falls apart. Mark actually makes up ground on Warden with this ingredient by not flubbing it.
This brings us to the Famous Swordsman ingredient. Warden goes the literal route, and created the character of Jellan. His exploits earned him plenty of enemies, and led him to retire to a plane where said enemies couldn't retaliate directly.
Mark takes the interpretive route and creates his own version of a "swordsman." His continual "swordplay" gets him into trouble, and, presumably, is also what motivates the characters to hunt him down. As written, though, Vothario is a pretty one-dimensional character, and the PCs are unlikely to get much of an opportunity to witness his swordplay. Additionally, his crimes (spreading a relatively minor VD) don't really seem up to the kind of rottenness that befits a lich.
Since he's neither sympathetic, nor really that vile – he just doesn't come across as compelling at all. Therefore, Warden pulls farther ahead.
Of course, now we have to look at playability. Mark gives us very little in the way of hooks. Vothario presumably seduced the wrong person, and now the PCs are on his trail for whatever reason. That's fine. Once they get to his lair, they're faced with a number of inconvenient traps which, at a level appropriate for lich-hunting, they should bypass quickly. From there, it's a hop, skip, and a jump to the lich's bedroom, and there the adventure devolves into a big fight.
This brings me to the major problem I have with Mark's entry. It's supposed to be a fight against a CR19 lich, and the power level of both the antagonist and protagonists isn't really taken into account. I'm certain that an uber-powerful, undead spellcaster can come up with more effective non-lethal traps than what were included. There's no mention of the lich's tactics, nothing indicating his escape plan (he's a lich – he's going to have a plan B), and no accounting for the awesome magic that PCs of this level are capable of wielding.
Warden's adventure, on the other hand, is well-tuned for PCs of a specific power level. The challenges presented felt consistent, throughout. However, as the adventure is written, there's absolutely no reason at all for the PCs to be involved!
From the way that the adventure reads, Spite sends the PCs in to distract Jellan, though they don't know that this is the plan. First of all, he sends along a book that he supposedly scries. This is supposed to tell him when Jellan is away from the armory, so that he can go in to steal the book. Problem One: in the description of scry in the SRD, you can't target an object – you have to target a creature. Problem Two: from the description that we're given, it appears that Spite is a prior target of Jellan. If he knows Jellan that well, why can't he just scry him? In that case, the PCs have no need to be involved. Problem Three: if the PCs are successful in distracting Jellan, then Spite will sneak in and out without anyone knowing he was there. Poof! No conflict! Boring adventure!
The PCs becoming involved in any conflict is predicated on a very specific set of circumstances – the PCs have to be in the armory when Spite goes to collect the weapon (or spot him on the way out), but the whole setup of the adventure is to prevent that from happening. This reads like a great background for a future adventure, one in which Jellan enlists the aid of the PCs to retrieve a sword stolen by an enemy, but it's not much of an adventure in and of itself.
If the first match of this round was the one where I wanted to advance both contestants, this is the one where I want to advance neither. Alas, I'm required to choose one to advance, so I must ask the question: which adventure is less troublesome? Mark provides us with more stat blocks than adventure, and his ingredient use was weak. Warden provides us with an adventure that should play itself, but his ingredient use was strong. By virtue of showing more potential, <spoiler: highlight to view>
</spoiler> advances to the next round.
Right. Warden. Mark. Back? Good. Right off the bat, I'm going to say that this is by far, the weakest of the matchups we've seen this round. While other entries have had weaknesses that I found forgivable or understandable, both of these adventures were written by people who should know better. Accordingly, this is likely to be the most critical of the round, so if you want to avoid all the unpleasantness and just find out who won, go ahead and skip to the end. I won't blame you.
Now, while both entries were bad, they were bad in different ways. So let's dissect them and find out what went so terribly, terribly wrong. We'll begin, as I have in most of these judgments, with a comparison of ingredient use. First up is the Ectoplasmic Corset. Here, both contestants use the ingredient as a method of gaining access to the ethereal plane.
Where do I begin? In D&D, ectoplasm has a specific meaning. It is a substance drawn from the Astral Plane. As a quality added to an armor or item of some type, it allows the wearer to assume "ectoplasmic form" for a brief duration. What is ectoplasmic form? Nothing like an ethereal form! In fact, so far as I can tell, ectoplasm has nothing at all to do with the ethereal plane. The only place I can find an intersection between the two is in the description of the psionic power, ethereal cocoon, where the prison generated by said cocoon extends into the ethereal. But that's it. Stretching an ingredient to fit the adventure is a time-honored Iron DM tradition, but here, the contestants basically ignore the "ectoplasmic" quality. The ingredient they used would have been a great Ethereal Corset, but it certainly isn't an Ectoplasmic one. Neither contestant even gets off the starting line with this one.
Next let's look at Violet. Again, neither use is very strong. Mark basically hides the ingredient in his lich's statblock. If I hadn't read it carefully enough, I wouldn't have seen it at all. Moreover, the ingredient is used as the description for a disease that's disfiguring enough to drive a vain bard to lichdom, but by its stats doesn't really seem to be that bad. And what does the disease do? By the description, "Violet Veins," it sounds like it gives the user a bad case of varicose veins. Shouldn't it cause Charisma damage then?
Warden, on the other hand, uses the violet as a key to access the peaceful Eternal Keep. Though he doesn't mention it, there is a thematic connection between the violet and the peace-loving keep. Violet has been used by certain cultures to moderate anger or to induce a calming effect. I'm not sure whether this connection was intentional, but Warden nevertheless gets credit for it. He gains a little bit of ground here.
This brings us to the Ethereal Keep. In Mark's case, the keep is a lich's lair, which seems appropriate. I can certainly imagine an insane wizard taking up residence in something like this. Warden, on the other hand, creates an adventurers' retirement home in the ethereal plane, which is certainly an interesting take. Since Warden's use of this ingredient is slightly more creative, he advances ever so slightly.
Since I just mentioned the keep, I might as well tackle the Pacifism ingredient. Warden strongly ties this ingredient into the nearly every other. The pacifistic nature of the ethereal demiplane makes it an ideal retirement home for a famous swordsman who has a long list of enemies. It also justifies the summoning of a rust monster, as well, since the rust monster is much more concerned about eating metal than eating adventurers.
Mark, on the other hand, creates a series of non-violent traps (including the rust monster), and identifies the ingredient in a warning to would be intruders. Are the traps really that pacifistic though? To a group of adventurers high enough in level to take on a lich, yeah, they probably are. That CR4 mimic is about one fireball away from being shag carpeting, and that poor rust monster's best hope is to get a bite out of someone's dagger before it's pelted with arrows and magic missiles. It's not a poor use of the ingredient, but Warden's use is significantly better.
As I mentioned above, the Rust Monster is used by Mark as a means to slow down potential intruders. It's a serviceable use of the ingredient, and ties into Pacifism, but is otherwise not particularly inspired. Warden, on the other hand, justifies the summoning of the rust monsters because of their pacifistic nature (at least to non-metallic creatures), and then uses them as a means to cover his antagonist's tracks.
However, Warden states that his antagonist's goal is to steal the sword "without arousing suspicion." I'm not entirely sure how the random appearance of a set of rust monsters in this plane that is normally closed off to any but those who have a key would not arouse suspicion. Do rust monsters routinely pass through the area? Is there a "Rust Monster Crossing" sign by the main road? Even if the swordsman thought that his sword was destroyed, wouldn't he try to seek vengeance for what is obviously a deliberate act? While I was initially impressed with the use of this ingredient, on closer inspection, it falls apart. Mark actually makes up ground on Warden with this ingredient by not flubbing it.
This brings us to the Famous Swordsman ingredient. Warden goes the literal route, and created the character of Jellan. His exploits earned him plenty of enemies, and led him to retire to a plane where said enemies couldn't retaliate directly.
Mark takes the interpretive route and creates his own version of a "swordsman." His continual "swordplay" gets him into trouble, and, presumably, is also what motivates the characters to hunt him down. As written, though, Vothario is a pretty one-dimensional character, and the PCs are unlikely to get much of an opportunity to witness his swordplay. Additionally, his crimes (spreading a relatively minor VD) don't really seem up to the kind of rottenness that befits a lich.
Since he's neither sympathetic, nor really that vile – he just doesn't come across as compelling at all. Therefore, Warden pulls farther ahead.
Of course, now we have to look at playability. Mark gives us very little in the way of hooks. Vothario presumably seduced the wrong person, and now the PCs are on his trail for whatever reason. That's fine. Once they get to his lair, they're faced with a number of inconvenient traps which, at a level appropriate for lich-hunting, they should bypass quickly. From there, it's a hop, skip, and a jump to the lich's bedroom, and there the adventure devolves into a big fight.
This brings me to the major problem I have with Mark's entry. It's supposed to be a fight against a CR19 lich, and the power level of both the antagonist and protagonists isn't really taken into account. I'm certain that an uber-powerful, undead spellcaster can come up with more effective non-lethal traps than what were included. There's no mention of the lich's tactics, nothing indicating his escape plan (he's a lich – he's going to have a plan B), and no accounting for the awesome magic that PCs of this level are capable of wielding.
Warden's adventure, on the other hand, is well-tuned for PCs of a specific power level. The challenges presented felt consistent, throughout. However, as the adventure is written, there's absolutely no reason at all for the PCs to be involved!
From the way that the adventure reads, Spite sends the PCs in to distract Jellan, though they don't know that this is the plan. First of all, he sends along a book that he supposedly scries. This is supposed to tell him when Jellan is away from the armory, so that he can go in to steal the book. Problem One: in the description of scry in the SRD, you can't target an object – you have to target a creature. Problem Two: from the description that we're given, it appears that Spite is a prior target of Jellan. If he knows Jellan that well, why can't he just scry him? In that case, the PCs have no need to be involved. Problem Three: if the PCs are successful in distracting Jellan, then Spite will sneak in and out without anyone knowing he was there. Poof! No conflict! Boring adventure!
The PCs becoming involved in any conflict is predicated on a very specific set of circumstances – the PCs have to be in the armory when Spite goes to collect the weapon (or spot him on the way out), but the whole setup of the adventure is to prevent that from happening. This reads like a great background for a future adventure, one in which Jellan enlists the aid of the PCs to retrieve a sword stolen by an enemy, but it's not much of an adventure in and of itself.
If the first match of this round was the one where I wanted to advance both contestants, this is the one where I want to advance neither. Alas, I'm required to choose one to advance, so I must ask the question: which adventure is less troublesome? Mark provides us with more stat blocks than adventure, and his ingredient use was weak. Warden provides us with an adventure that should play itself, but his ingredient use was strong. By virtue of showing more potential, <spoiler: highlight to view>
Warden
