Living Superheroes World (Come join the fun and the debate)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
I think we're trying to turn this into too much of a campaign. Its why I keep trying to push us back to LEW style model. Lots of GMs running games, with Judges doing the organizing. No meta-plot going, but maybe GMs telling stories with their own villain coming back again.

If this is going to actually work, meta-plot be damned.Honestly, why plot so much ahead? LEW jumped right in and it worked. All you need is a central point that everyone organizes at, a few GMs to get games started, players, and a few judges to do the organizing. Let the world be developed as the games are played.
I don't think we are talking about metaplot just yet. We are trying to pin down the basics, which we will need. Sure, LEW did jump right in - but it has been suffering from some of those sins of doing so, as setting details were overlooked, for instance (and there have been thoughts on doing overarching storylines, but they never got very far). Since we are talking about a persistent world, sure, we will be using a LEW-style model.

Let's take a deep breath. Maybe we should have a little brainstorm:
  • At what point in known history should the first supers appear?
  • Should there be a relatively common origin, and what should be it?
  • How should the superheroes (PCs) be organized into teams? Is there one big organization for the heroes to join, or are there multiple? Use the LEW Tavern system (the DM posts, and players apply)? Or should a superior (equivalent to a tavern judge?) assign people into a team?
  • Should supervillains be allowed? If so, how do they organize? How are their actions managed, considering that the heroes will want to foil them?
  • What other problems do you foresee?
 

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LogicsFate said:
We need a blank world, if we make up a history, and set all kinds of creavtive rules down, then there will be creative deferences, let's keep it simple and let the GM's world build

No, we need to as a group come up with the world. Otherwise its 1 or 2 people doing it, and its screw you if you don't like the world, thats fine, in individual games, not so fine when there will be a lot of games in the same world. Letting everyone be involved in the discussions brings together the community of people that will actually play in it. They will feel that they had some say, and feel a greater connection to the world because of it. You need a solidified core world concept so that the individual GMs don't go contradicting each other in their games about the history of the game world. Even if we keep the metaplot small to non-existant, a core game world thats reality doesn't shift depending on which gm's game your playing in at any given time is important. Consistancy is key.

A big part of the problem that we are running into comes from the love people have in different Genre's of Comics. Some people prefer more 'realistic', others prefer more Four Color, and still others perefer Grim 'n Gritty. I know that I personally prefer 'realistic' (I know that supers aren't very realistic) worlds like the Marvel Ultimate Universe (barring the whole Skrull invasion :( ). That preference shapes what I think the world should be, just as someone that prefers the world of the Power Puff girls would have their preferences shaped in other ways.
 

Kylara said:
No, we need to as a group come up with the world. Otherwise its 1 or 2 people doing it, and its screw you if you don't like the world, thats fine, in individual games, not so fine when there will be a lot of games in the same world. Letting everyone be involved in the discussions brings together the community of people that will actually play in it. They will feel that they had some say, and feel a greater connection to the world because of it. You need a solidified core world concept so that the individual GMs don't go contradicting each other in their games about the history of the game world. Even if we keep the metaplot small to non-existant, a core game world thats reality doesn't shift depending on which gm's game your playing in at any given time is important. Consistancy is key.

A big part of the problem that we are running into comes from the love people have in different Genre's of Comics. Some people prefer more 'realistic', others prefer more Four Color, and still others perefer Grim 'n Gritty. I know that I personally prefer 'realistic' (I know that supers aren't very realistic) worlds like the Marvel Ultimate Universe (barring the whole Skrull invasion :( ). That preference shapes what I think the world should be, just as someone that prefers the world of the Power Puff girls would have their preferences shaped in other ways.

Yes, discusing it, that is indeed what we are doing :).

Every one wants to see the world in their own light, why not let them. It's a big enough world to let shiney happy adventures rest beside the Grim and gritty ones. Give the DM's a large amout of artistic freedom, but have them run their possible adventure ideas by Judges who would hopefully catch any contridictions
 

Brother Shatterstone said:
Yeah, I do agree with this and if no one has any objections I think I would be interesting in Roleplaying the MM of this campaign. :D (However it's set up.)

Kylara said:
I'd be leary of letting anyone play it since he/she will be 100% a GM tool.

There's no reason you can't control that mechanism in general, but it does need to be a tool available to all. Basicly, I'm technicaly allowed to take control of Joe, but so must all GMs be able to do so. I've chosen a hands off approach because, well, it's what's been done in the past and it works. If you want a more hands on mentor approach when said heroes are not adventuring, I don't see why not if you were to become the "League Facility Coordinator"
 

LogicsFate said:
Yes, discusing it, that is indeed what we are doing :).

Every one wants to see the world in their own light, why not let them. It's a big enough world to let shiney happy adventures rest beside the Grim and gritty ones. Give the DM's a large amout of artistic freedom, but have them run their possible adventure ideas by Judges who would hopefully catch any contridictions
I agree. While setting a general tone, there should be plenty of places where the GMs can go. If a GM wants to run an espionage style game, why not if the Heroes are willing and able. If the GM wants to run more of a combat brawler game, again, why not? Perhaps there's some coruption in the League system that needs removal that has only reciently become apparent, or perhaps Dr Eyegore is sending out mind control through the TV. Assuming it can be approved by a panel of judges as a valid adventure (similar to the LEW system), the GM should be allowed to run it, and present the world how he wishes in general context.

What needs to happen is that limits should be set as to how far an adventure can go as to changing the world. Can leadership of a country change? How big a Country? What about Wars? What about destruction of landmarks/Buildings?

What needs to happen also is that events need to be recorded into public history that happen in Adventures, which I would suggest should fall on the players a bit more than the GM (For occasionaly, the players miss something significant, which tends to mean others might have as well). So the history and the world is built with adventures, and as it grows, GMs either have more material to work with that they don't need to make up, or they can simply do something new and simply know what not to conflict with.

But, this should be a fairly open system. Other than the diverging event, everything should be flexable to allow for maximum use by GMs and Players alike, so beyond a bit of world history of how the league came into formation, there shouldn't be much to the world differing from modern times.

Once we set up a few Judges to monitor things (Approval Judges, Adventure Judges, Character Approval Judges, and perhaps Site Judges, some filling more than one capacity) and decide on a basic starting point, we can continue forming the world from there through adventures and proposals.

How they shape the world:
Adventures: These are events, but things that are needed to facilitate this are also created. Villians, other Heroes, non-super personalities, locations, corperations, etc. Once an adventure is over, most of these are open game to be used again, though I encourage the allowing of a GM to hold some control over his own created supervillan for continuity perposes.

Proposals: Changes in the Rules, Options, How things opperate in the campaign, or even major backround information/changes. These need to be approved by approval Judges, and while not retroactive unless specified (and deemed appropriate), can help flavor and personalize the world as things advance. Major Influental organizations, Major world changes and such should be proposed here.

Backgrounds: Players shape the world with their backgrounds. They generate organizations, people, events, and places that might otherwise not exist. While anything majorly worldchanging should be offered up for approval, minor things are good, and add flavor. Flavorful backgrounds with interesting material should be encouraged, or perhaps even background that can be developed through adventures or in adventures (such as unnamed secret organizations).
 

Kylara said:
BS, hop on Aim, I'd like to chat, if thats ok.

I'm online.

Not that I think it matters, everyone wants a very vanilla world and I dislike that straight up, it’s why I don't play LEW.

I want to outlaw power sources, I see no need for mysticism or magic in the world I want, but others do.

I want a tight knit world that makes sense and not one that's been run amuck with too many different ideas being integrated.

I’m not going to put my force down cause this isn’t a campaign it’s a persistent world and I’ve seen what happens when the powers that be get to tight fisted and force people to do it there way.

I also know myself well enough to know I don’t like free for all games where the players have no ties that bind them together yet they are metagamed bond together.
 

Brother Shatterstone said:
I'm online.

Not that I think it matters, everyone wants a very vanilla world and I dislike that straight up, it’s why I don't play LEW.

I want to outlaw power sources, I see no need for mysticism or magic in the world I want, but others do.

I want a tight knit world that makes sense and not one that's been run amuck with too many different ideas being integrated.

I’m not going to put my force down cause this isn’t a campaign it’s a persistent world and I’ve seen what happens when the powers that be get to tight fisted and force people to do it there way.

I also know myself well enough to know I don’t like free for all games where the players have no ties that bind them together yet they are metagamed bond together.


Wow. If you feel like that, then you should really stop and consider if this is a project you should get involved with.
I'm not trying to offend you, but every point you made pretty much runs counter to the whole "shared-world" concept.
It sounds like you'd be happier if this was your world, and people just signed up to play in it.
And that's fine honestly. But that doesn't make it Living EN Super World, that makes it "Brother Shatterstones Massive Campaign World"
Again, I'm not trying to be critical of your opinions. I tend to operate that way too. My wife calls me a "control-freak megalomaniac" :D

My personal opinions for this project are as follows:

Part 1: Characters
A) Power Level for the players: Book Standard PL 10
a1)Can players start their characters at a lower level then the standard level if they choose to? Sure, if they want to.

B) Campaign Power Level: The maximum power level for the campaign world. Start everyone at the same power. Set a max limit on NPC's that will scale with the PC's. PC at PL 10 means o bad guys more than PC PL+3

C)What Powers if any will be dis-allowed, or altered for balance reasons: Just the real game-breakers - Time Travel, etc. Although in a supers game, you can always have the "Time Cops" show up and fix things if need be.

Part 2: Game masters
A)Who is willing to be a game master?
Sorry, not et. I'm still learning M&M and while I'd love to GM, I need a little more time as a player. Need to get the 2.0 book too.

B)How will future events set in the world be decided upon. Will we have a few super GMs that will plan out the metaplots, and double check that the GMs are not varying to widely from the meta plot? Let all the GM's hammer things out as they go. There's no need, or even way to decide on metaplot until you see what people are playing. A huge alien invasion would be a cool story, unless you discover that people all want to play street-level heroes.

Part 3: The World
A)What is the overall tone of the world?
Standard comic book setting ala Marvel or DC. Nothing too complicated. Let every GM decide what tone their games will take. There's room for the gritty Batman/Punisher stories, as well as the lighthearted Shazam/Speedball stuff.

B)How did the majority of Supers become Super, this is important because it shapes the history of the world, perceptions of Supers, and a variety of other things. Enh ... I don't see it as all that important. Look at Marvel & DC, there's literally a million ways for people to "get super" and it all works fine. Why limit players to one origin? Leave room for everything from Thor to Iron Man to Captain America.
If you really need some kind of deus ex machina to enforce PC unity, just make them all agents of the United Nations, and thus they are occaisonally called upon to defend the global community from threats to world peace.

Sorry if this post comes off as argumentative. I'm honestly not trying to step on anyones toes here.
I just think this is a great idea, and wanted to contribute my two cents. YMMV.
 

What about a vote or poll?
For each section (character background, power level, play style, etc.) set up a list of options based on views shared in this thread and see what people vote for.
 

Tinner said:
Wow. If you feel like that, then you should really stop and consider if this is a project you should get involved with.

Someone must have missed my good bye post. ;) (See! I knew I was being ignored! :lol: )

Tinner said:
I just think this is a great idea, and wanted to contribute my two cents.

Thanks, I'm glad I thought of it too. :D

Anyhow, canceling thread notifications, email, PM, or drop word in an RA OOC thread if you need my attention. :D
 

Well, here's an Easy Poll

A) Begining Character power (Pick one, or list in order of Preference)
1) New/Low Powered start (<PL8)
2) Near Average (PL8-12)
3) Standard (PL10 exactly)
4) High Powered (>PL12)
5) Other (Please Explain)

B) Character Origin
1) Limited Scope (Restricted to a few options)
2) Nearly Unlimited (Restricted very little if any)
3) One Specific Origin for all (Single initially declaired event or idea)
4) Other (Please Explain)

C) Setting Origin
1) RL with Reciently catylicit/divergant event (the Millenium commet)
2) RL plus Superheroes (Heroes throughout history)
3) RL Returning catylicit/divergant events (The return of the Millenium Commet)
4) Not RL with Reciently catylicit/divergant event (the Millenium commet)
5) Not RL plus Superheroes (Completely from scratch Heroes throughout history)
6) Not RL Returning catylicit/divergant events (The return of the Millenium Commet)
7) Other (Please Explain)

D) I am... (Choose all that are appropriate)
1) Definately interested in Playing
2) Definately interested in GMing
3) Possibly interested in Playing
4) Possibly interested in GMing
5) Interested in Judging in some way
6) Interested in helping organizing things.
7) Other (Please expliain)

E: Comments

I'll try to compile the stats in a few days, but vote here (and no, don't vote often. ;))
 
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