Stat Generation - your wierd and wacky ways
- Thread starter Psychic Warrior
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Psimancer
First Post
From my head!Nyaricus said:
BTW, thanx - that made my day!!! 
It’s an option, but you will find that the random element becomes almost non-existent; players will buffer the ‘random’ die with the ‘allocated’ die, and you will rarely see an 8 or 9. You may as well just use point-buy. And if it was Base, Random, Assign is would be known as the BRA Method...Brain said:
I would suggest instead adding in this option (which I occasionally use):
* * *
4. Total your statistics; you may gain bonus points that may be added to any statistic and can even take the total above 18:
• 78 or greater: No bonus points
• 72 – 77: 2 bonus points
• 66 – 71: 4 bonus points
• 60 – 65: 6 bonus points
• 54 – 59: 8 bonus points
• 48 - 54: 10 bonus points
* * *
So even if you roll bad, the character becomes salvageable.
Remember, the point of this method ISN’T just to give players BAD stats, but to occasionally give them GOOD stats that they otherwise wouldn’t take.
An intelligent Barbarian or a strong Wizard is a refreshing change.
EDIT: Adding in option 4 changes the name to the BARB Method (Base, Assign, Random, Bonus).
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Nyaricus
First Post
Favourite Stat Rolling Methods
okay, i thought i'd just reiterate my favourite ways in a vaguely highest to lowest order, up to this point.
1) The Organic Method
Roll 4d6, dropping the lowest roll, in order. Then, reroll any one score (taking the highest of the two scores), and switch any two. I like it because it forces you to make "sacrifices" (as in not allocating ability scores to their best places) while still keeping things interesting with the re-roll and the switch.
1b) The Organic Method: Evolved
Roll two sets of stats, 4d6 drop the lowest roll, in order. Then, choose one set of the stats to use in the game. Then, you may take one score from your unused set and swap it 1-1 with a score from your chosen set, score for score (ie switching your Str score for a better one if playing a martial-type).
2) Standard Method
Roll 4d6 six times, drop the lowest one, assign as desired. This is a staple method, and is simple and efficient.
2b) Alt Standard Method
As above, but roll 7 times and drop lowest set. Allows for a chance lest there be a real bomber of a roll.
3) The Low Magic Method
3d10, dropping the lowest one (if all dice are "1" then the score is boosted to 3) and either:
a) go the Organic Method or
b) the Standard Method (in that order, had i the choice). I like this for my low-magic campaign setting because it gave us some really cool characters - like the 22 Str Half-orc mercenary (read: fighter) and the Human priest with 8 str and 8 con and 19 Wis. The only real drawback is the wide range of rolls - this isn't really a bell curve, although i'm not a guys who's uber with statistics and the such. This is suposed to be used in a low-magic campaign setting, but i suppose you could use this fo high-power/magic too)
4) I also like the method Psimancer suggested: The B.A.R. Method -Base Assigned Random
1) All stats have a base value of 6
2) +1d6 (rolled and assigned as desired)
3) +1d6 (rolled in stat order)
I'd let players roll their stats first, and then choose their class and race - otherwise you could have a fighter with 8 Str, and that's (although very unlikely) not cool. This is a method that is very iffy - you could end up with a very flawed character, esp if you have a concept in mind beforehand (or liek a certain class/race combo). Probably won't see much sue by me, but dammit, i like it
5) I also like the method Thanee suggested: Dice Bonus Method
After rolling your character (using either Organic or Standard Method), roll 6d6. Every "1" rolled gives +1 to Str, every "2" rolled gives +1 to Dex and so on. Points above 18 are re-distributed 2-for-1, so a single point is simply lost (or you could still simply go for 1-for-1, gettign many rolls for your 18 stat wouldn't happen too often after all).
6) I also like the method Agback suggested: B.M.T. Method -or- Bottom Middle Top Method
You pick two top attributes, two middling attributes, and two bottom attributes. Then you roll 5d6 and drop the lowest two (for the top attributes), 4d6 drop the lowest one (for the middle attributes), and 3d6 dropping none (for the lowest attributes). No swaps. No trade-offs. I like it because you can still get some varience in this system, while creating a unique charatcer - one that will perhaps support you characters design better.
7) I also like the method Fieri suggested: The Gambling Method
Using either Organic or Standard Methods, The player rolls his character. At the same time, the DM rolls (using the same Method) another set of stats, arranged appropriately. After this, the player may either keep their own roll, or gamble by choosing the DM's roll. I lile this method because it definitively adds a nice sense or derring-do to stat creation, and yet still is pretty fair; and although very powerful characters are more possible, the same is with lower powered ones.
8) I also like the method runtime suggested (in another thread): Player Swapping
Each player rolls a set of ability scores, which are kept in order (as in first roll = Strength, second roll = Dex, etc). Players may now switch 1-to-1 for other players ability scores, but only once per ability (so no continual swapping). This allows for much more customizable characters than the Standard Organic Method, but should only really be used with players who are well organised and such, as I could see jealousy become rampant.
9) The 1-1 Point Buy Method
Everyone starts with a score of 0. You get 75 points (in a standard campaign; 60 for lower-powered ones, and 90 for higher) to distribute 1-1 amongst your various scores. You must have no score lower than three after any racial stat changes (so dwarves may not have a 3 cha before tacking on their -2 cha, and have a 1 Cha score) and may have no score higher than 18 before racial stat changes.
Dr Awkward
Each player rolls 4d6, drop lowest (in the case of having too few players, the DM rolls the extras). We collect these to make a set of ability scores. The group then votes on whether to keep the scores. If they do, great. Everyone makes a character from the same set of scores. If not, they reroll. However, whatever the first player's roll is gets fixed. That roll will no longer be rerolled. The players vote on that set, and if they reject it, the second player's roll gets fixed. Every time they reject, they get stuck with a roll, whether it's good or bad. After 6 rerolls, all the stats are fixed, and that's what you play with.
thats all for now, but i am going to definitively keep this post updated
11) D.O.D.S. - Double Oragnic Double Swap
Roll two sets of stats, in order. Choose one set and swap over any two stats from unchosen set to be used, one-for-one with corresponding pair.
okay, i thought i'd just reiterate my favourite ways in a vaguely highest to lowest order, up to this point.
1) The Organic Method
Roll 4d6, dropping the lowest roll, in order. Then, reroll any one score (taking the highest of the two scores), and switch any two. I like it because it forces you to make "sacrifices" (as in not allocating ability scores to their best places) while still keeping things interesting with the re-roll and the switch.
1b) The Organic Method: Evolved
Roll two sets of stats, 4d6 drop the lowest roll, in order. Then, choose one set of the stats to use in the game. Then, you may take one score from your unused set and swap it 1-1 with a score from your chosen set, score for score (ie switching your Str score for a better one if playing a martial-type).
2) Standard Method
Roll 4d6 six times, drop the lowest one, assign as desired. This is a staple method, and is simple and efficient.
2b) Alt Standard Method
As above, but roll 7 times and drop lowest set. Allows for a chance lest there be a real bomber of a roll.
3) The Low Magic Method
3d10, dropping the lowest one (if all dice are "1" then the score is boosted to 3) and either:
a) go the Organic Method or
b) the Standard Method (in that order, had i the choice). I like this for my low-magic campaign setting because it gave us some really cool characters - like the 22 Str Half-orc mercenary (read: fighter) and the Human priest with 8 str and 8 con and 19 Wis. The only real drawback is the wide range of rolls - this isn't really a bell curve, although i'm not a guys who's uber with statistics and the such. This is suposed to be used in a low-magic campaign setting, but i suppose you could use this fo high-power/magic too)
4) I also like the method Psimancer suggested: The B.A.R. Method -Base Assigned Random
1) All stats have a base value of 6
2) +1d6 (rolled and assigned as desired)
3) +1d6 (rolled in stat order)
I'd let players roll their stats first, and then choose their class and race - otherwise you could have a fighter with 8 Str, and that's (although very unlikely) not cool. This is a method that is very iffy - you could end up with a very flawed character, esp if you have a concept in mind beforehand (or liek a certain class/race combo). Probably won't see much sue by me, but dammit, i like it
5) I also like the method Thanee suggested: Dice Bonus Method
After rolling your character (using either Organic or Standard Method), roll 6d6. Every "1" rolled gives +1 to Str, every "2" rolled gives +1 to Dex and so on. Points above 18 are re-distributed 2-for-1, so a single point is simply lost (or you could still simply go for 1-for-1, gettign many rolls for your 18 stat wouldn't happen too often after all).
6) I also like the method Agback suggested: B.M.T. Method -or- Bottom Middle Top Method
You pick two top attributes, two middling attributes, and two bottom attributes. Then you roll 5d6 and drop the lowest two (for the top attributes), 4d6 drop the lowest one (for the middle attributes), and 3d6 dropping none (for the lowest attributes). No swaps. No trade-offs. I like it because you can still get some varience in this system, while creating a unique charatcer - one that will perhaps support you characters design better.
7) I also like the method Fieri suggested: The Gambling Method
Using either Organic or Standard Methods, The player rolls his character. At the same time, the DM rolls (using the same Method) another set of stats, arranged appropriately. After this, the player may either keep their own roll, or gamble by choosing the DM's roll. I lile this method because it definitively adds a nice sense or derring-do to stat creation, and yet still is pretty fair; and although very powerful characters are more possible, the same is with lower powered ones.
8) I also like the method runtime suggested (in another thread): Player Swapping
Each player rolls a set of ability scores, which are kept in order (as in first roll = Strength, second roll = Dex, etc). Players may now switch 1-to-1 for other players ability scores, but only once per ability (so no continual swapping). This allows for much more customizable characters than the Standard Organic Method, but should only really be used with players who are well organised and such, as I could see jealousy become rampant.
9) The 1-1 Point Buy Method
Everyone starts with a score of 0. You get 75 points (in a standard campaign; 60 for lower-powered ones, and 90 for higher) to distribute 1-1 amongst your various scores. You must have no score lower than three after any racial stat changes (so dwarves may not have a 3 cha before tacking on their -2 cha, and have a 1 Cha score) and may have no score higher than 18 before racial stat changes.
Dr Awkward
Each player rolls 4d6, drop lowest (in the case of having too few players, the DM rolls the extras). We collect these to make a set of ability scores. The group then votes on whether to keep the scores. If they do, great. Everyone makes a character from the same set of scores. If not, they reroll. However, whatever the first player's roll is gets fixed. That roll will no longer be rerolled. The players vote on that set, and if they reject it, the second player's roll gets fixed. Every time they reject, they get stuck with a roll, whether it's good or bad. After 6 rerolls, all the stats are fixed, and that's what you play with.
thats all for now, but i am going to definitively keep this post updated
11) D.O.D.S. - Double Oragnic Double Swap
Roll two sets of stats, in order. Choose one set and swap over any two stats from unchosen set to be used, one-for-one with corresponding pair.
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Nyaricus
First Post
IndyPendant said:
This is a post about ways to have fun with stat generation - not an anti-PB thread. If you like point buy, then thats all you really ahd to say - as you can see, people obviously like random stat gen - which is really no more random then any other aspect of the D&D game, other then the fact that it stays with for your career.
If you have a character that is truely un-playable, then you should have the right to a re-roll. Players don't whine and pine all the time, or everytime about this. If they do, its probably more meta-game then not, and thats something you need to address out of game. Sorry you have had such a bad experience with this, but its just one other intersting aspect of D&D - a game that is based on dice, should start with dice. There, i said it. And the fact is, i could say many more things about your post about players and how they "always act." But i won't, because you are obviously stuck in quite the rut. My condolences.
Hey YOU... yes, you in the Funny Hat!Man in the Funny Hat said:
Mr. VanderPol, I presume? Got a question for you regarding a comment you made in your overview about the "mirror" method I proposed:
Just wondering why you call this one in particular a "VERY" high powered method, especially when some of the other methods on that page are clearly even higher powered ...
Keep in mind that the average roll on 3d6-dop-1 is around 12.25. Slightly higher if you use any of the methods to eliminate bad sets of stats. 25 minus a stat will average around 12.75, and a bit lower than that if you truncate at 18.
Actually, based on 100,000 random rolls, I get an average of 12.245 dor 4d6-drop-1, 12.478 for the "mirror" method. About half of that is due to the fact that you get somewhat more 18's, the other half because you get fewer very low stats.
True, the number of 18's just about doubles with this method. That means that the probability of getting one 18 on any set of 6 stats goes up from about 10% to around 20%. If you have 4 players in your group, the chances that you'll get more than one 18 in the whole bunch are very low (less than 5%).
In comparison, 6+2d6 gives you an average of 13, and about 16% of getting an 18 on any set of 6 stats. If you use the "matrix" method using 4d6-drop-1 rolls (approximated as "best set of 6 stats out of 14"), the average is a whopping 14.17, and the probability of getting an 18 in your final set is around 50%. Even if you use plain 3d6 stats in the matrix, the average of the stats is 12.56 and the chance of getting an 18 in your final set of is about 15%.
PS: as a variant on the mirror method, you could reroll on a 6 or lower instead. You'll still get just slightly more 18's this way, but no so it's really noticeable. And you never have to say "minimum 18".
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And another assignment variant, while we're at it:
Roll 4d6-drop-1 (or any other method, for that matter) and assign as you go!
I.e. after rolling the 1st stat, you choose where to assign it. Then you roll the 2nd stat, and choose where to assign that one, etc. You never get to change any of the assignments, so you have to choose wisely. But you can change your character concept all the way up until the end.
Say you were planning a Fighter character, you've already filled your primary stats with respectable but not stellar stats, and you're down to your last two "dump stats" Wis and Cha... and you roll an 18! Hmm... maybe a Paladin or a combat cleric sounds good too...
Roll 4d6-drop-1 (or any other method, for that matter) and assign as you go!
I.e. after rolling the 1st stat, you choose where to assign it. Then you roll the 2nd stat, and choose where to assign that one, etc. You never get to change any of the assignments, so you have to choose wisely. But you can change your character concept all the way up until the end.
Say you were planning a Fighter character, you've already filled your primary stats with respectable but not stellar stats, and you're down to your last two "dump stats" Wis and Cha... and you roll an 18! Hmm... maybe a Paladin or a combat cleric sounds good too...
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
But wait - if you use point buy then you don't get whatever stats you want for your character. You abide by limitations set by your chosen method of generation. Myself, I find point buy to be Draconian in disallowing some characters to have better stats than others (because I do not consider it in ANY way unfair for one player to have a character that is superior to another character.) It also tends to result in unacceptably formulaic characters (a tendency exhibited with any method that allows a character to be "designed").IndyPendant said:
I have seen far more creative, memorable characters using random generation than I think I could ever hope to see with point buy. However, while I greatly dislike point-buy I do not despise anyone who prefers non-random methods as you seem to despise anyone who fails to conform to YOUR preferences. The fact is that random methods and non-random methods each have their faults and benefits. Do not make the mistake of thinking that we all need to conform to a unified method of play.
Just look at the variations being presented. People use these methods. They LIKE them. Their PLAYERS like them. How can you possibly be so vehemently opposed to HOW someone else goes about playing the game? It's one thing to express a strongly held preference and attempt to convince others of its benefits, but you're off-base to say things like:
And this...
Is a clear contradiction in your position. If stats are a very minor aspect of a character then it doesn't matter much if random methods results in both very good and very bad sets of stats for characters in a given party. But if randomness is so barbaric then clearly you're placing rather more importance on those stats than this last statement attempts to indicate. I think you need to pick one or the other... or perhaps just accept that randomness is not the crime against players you've been thinking it is.
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Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
I'm sorry, all questions must be submitted in writing... Oh. Well, okay then...Conaill said:Hey YOU... yes, you in the Funny Hat!
That, in a nutshell, is what struck me most about it. I'm all for seeing some good numbers for PC stats but not THAT good.
1 stat in 5 being an 18 seemed... excessive to me. 'S why I thought simply using a lower maximum value to mirror from might be a preferable alternative.But, don't take ANY of the commentary I have on that particular page as being particularly noteworthy. It's unapologetically biased, reactionary, and propagandistic. Possibly even wrong... nah, let's not go overboard.
Man in the Funny Hat said:I'm sorry, all questions must be submitted in writing... Oh. Well, okay then...
That, in a nutshell, is what struck me most about it. I'm all for seeing some good numbers for PC stats but not THAT good.
No, no, no, no....
One SET of stats in 5 has an 18! Whereas with 4d6 it's one SET of stats in about 10 (unless people are cheating, or the DM is a little too soft-hearted with rerolls...)
Per-stat, it's about one stat in 27 that'll be an 18. For 4d6, it's one stat in 54.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
I'm glad IndyPendant chimed in so I wouldn't have to voice my (apparantly minority) opinion alone. I'll say it flat out: I hate rolling stats! Roll poorly (but not poorly enough for the DM to take pity on you and let you reroll) and you're stuck for the rest of the campaign with an under-powered character. One minute of fateful rolling determines the rest of your character's life. No other set of rolls in the entire game comes even close in scope to the importance of those first 6 sets of d6's. No other set of rolls will factor into nearly as many attack rolls, saves, skill checks, etc... Simply put, placing this much emphasis on a few dice rolls seems unbalanced to me.
People have said that a point buy is boring. Maybe so. But since when did people get adrenaline highs off of stat creation anyway? It's a one-time deal, do it, it's done. Never again (unless PC fatality is very high ^_^).
So, I, and most of the DM's I play with, use something even flatter and more dull than standard point buy. Take X number of points. Put them into the six stats as you like, max 18, min 5 (I don't like the idea of a PC with a 1 or 2 in anything, not just int). The trick, as someone pointed out by saying that point buy hurts the more stat-dependent classes, is striking a balance between too few points for a monk to survive on, and so many points even the wizard's a pretty good grappler. From trial and error, we've determined 85 is too much and 75 is too few, so next campaign we'll try 80. That could result in stats of: 18, 18, 14, 12, 10, 8; or any other combo that sums to 80 and works for the player. No need for any extra frills. Everyone starts even. The fun starts when the game officially does.
People have said that a point buy is boring. Maybe so. But since when did people get adrenaline highs off of stat creation anyway? It's a one-time deal, do it, it's done. Never again (unless PC fatality is very high ^_^).
So, I, and most of the DM's I play with, use something even flatter and more dull than standard point buy. Take X number of points. Put them into the six stats as you like, max 18, min 5 (I don't like the idea of a PC with a 1 or 2 in anything, not just int). The trick, as someone pointed out by saying that point buy hurts the more stat-dependent classes, is striking a balance between too few points for a monk to survive on, and so many points even the wizard's a pretty good grappler. From trial and error, we've determined 85 is too much and 75 is too few, so next campaign we'll try 80. That could result in stats of: 18, 18, 14, 12, 10, 8; or any other combo that sums to 80 and works for the player. No need for any extra frills. Everyone starts even. The fun starts when the game officially does.
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