Not Reading Ryan Dancy

I noticed you locked your blog thread--I hope you're still answering questions!

Hi--most of your blog is pretty even-keeled, however, I'm puzzled by your insertion of the witticism regarding the king of the blind. I think that overall, your tone doesn't necessarily harken to doom and gloom for the industry. Yet you've taken this as an opportunity to jibe at the leaders of the industry. Is this simply because they let you go from WotC? In the absence of more specifics as to the failings of these companies I can't help but view the comment as a way to espouse your displeasure at the management styles of said companies. Clearly shrinking portfolios and margins speak for themselves. However, if you are willing would you provide more detail as to what those flaws are specifically, and what (if any) ways there may be to fix them.

Your comments about distributors ect, are of most interest to me and incidentally what I have the least knowledge about. From a pure business sense though isn't this all a GOOD thing? Distributors and shops of an older era closing up? If the fans themselves are still there which seems almost a given until the gaming sector as it is either retires (losing their income) or dies (losing their discretion et al)--then all that remains is to get them the games. The internet (much lambasted by the store owners of this current generation) seems to be a thriving medium. Won't the losses in this sector be short-term as new more effective business methods are developed? Evolution would seem to thrive on hard times and most especially on a culling of the fold. It would seem to go hand-in-hand that new ways of delivering games means new ways of developing games, which means new---well new games! Is this type of organic ground up paradigm shift so impossible? Is our only salvation another niche for a so-called new gaming genre??
 

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jedijon said:
I noticed you locked your blog thread--I hope you're still answering questions!

Don't know what you mean - no locking on my blog. Please feel free to post!

I'm puzzled by your insertion of the witticism regarding the king of the blind. I think that overall, your tone doesn't necessarily harken to doom and gloom for the industry. Yet you've taken this as an opportunity to jibe at the leaders of the industry. Is this simply because they let you go from WotC?

I resigned from Wizards of the Coast, I was not fired. They wanted me to stay, but I was not happy there and it was time for me to move on.

I call those 6 companies "one eye'd kings" because they are all tragically flawed, but even so, they have the resources, the brands, and the team to lead the whole industry, to change it (for better or worse), and their actions will have a wider impact than virtually the whole rest of the industry combined.

Wizards of the Coast suffers from Neil Armstrong syndrome. After you walk on the moon, what do you do for an encore? Your company is full of rock stars who have generated hundreds of millions of dollars, bought and sold whole categories of product, and all want to prove they can be the genesis of the "next big thing". As a result, they have a very, very hard time making successful new products; everything they try blows up. If it's a good idea, all the rock stars try to pile in and get their slice of credit. If it challenges the political status quo, it gets strangled in the cradle. And if by some miracle it does start to become successful, the key managers are often pulled off the project to work on something else. More than any other company in gaming, WotC needs a Steve Jobs.

Upper Deck is a company that is in gaming purely for the money. They're a sports card company that is run by sports card guys, and on some level, they've not reconciled themselves to the idea that elves & orcs are making their company successful. You can read all about Upper Deck's executives here:

http://www.amazon.com/Card-Sharks-High-Stakes-Billion-Dollar-Business/dp/0788193813

They have yet to show that they can make a game successful because of its game qualities. Yu-Gi-Oh! was an import/translation deal like Pokemon. World of Warcraft is popular because of MMORPG items. Vs. has a massive pro-tour with cash prizes backing it up. In a lot of ways, at the highest levels, Upper Deck is the company a lot of gamers accuse WotC of being - just focused on the money, with no love for the products.

Games Workshop is the only big company in gaming that built their success, one year after another. They had a laser-like focus, and they just worked hard on their business making it better and better. Then the market changed, and they did not change with it. Now, about five years later, they're decaying rapidly, but they're still strong. Games Workshop is a company that could surprise a lot of people if it had new management and a new vision, and once they clean up their balance sheet. Borrowing money to pay shareholder dividends is a quick route to disaster, and it cannot long continue. Until they have a top-level change, they're unlikely to make progress.

I love Privateer, think Matt Wilson is a rock star, and would buy the company right now if I had the money and the opportunity. Making the transition from 'small company' to 'growth company' is really, really hard. Most entreprenuers who try it fail. Sometimes, success kills. The problems of scope & size that come with growth can overwhelm executives used to having hands on responsibilities for product quality and design. Until we see how Matt and his team handle the stress, we have to assume that its a period of danger for Privateer. I wish them all the luck in the world.

WizKids's fatal flaw is that they're true believers. They want to follow WotC to the top of the mountain along the same trail - up the hobby gaming route. They got a good start, right at the point where that market started to come apart at the seams. 6 years later, they're still battling. I think its a futile fight. As long as they spend valuable resources (time, money & energy) fighting that battle, they're delaying the day of reckoning when they have to switch directions and fight a whole new battle on a new battlefield.

White Wolf grew up. When they were young punks, all living in a big house together, they could live the ethic their products espoused. Now they're all older, wiser, and a little less willing to fail in pursuit of art. And they have a viable exit to the MMORPG world, and they know it. They're smart enough to take it, so I believe they will. Their tragic flaw is that you can't stay young forever, eventually everyone grows up. And grownups just can't relate on that deep, psychic level with the adolescents who are the primary target of the World of Darkness.

Your comments about distributors ect, are of most interest to me and incidentally what I have the least knowledge about. From a pure business sense though isn't this all a GOOD thing?

No distributor makes perfect orders. All of them end up with a little more than they can sell of any given, non-fad product. Those overages add up. As the number of distributors contracts, the overages shrink, which decreases publisher sales.

In the comic book business, a series of moves and countermoves ended with Diamond Comics having monolithic distribution rights for most comics. Its essentially a monopoly. Alliance, the largest hobby distributor, is owned by the same man who owns Diamond. It is very likely that Alliance wants to move into a parallel environment with Diamond - being the monolithic game distributor. Some people (mostly retailers) are worried that this will have disastrous effects on their businesses, and some (especially those who are chronic slow paying accounts) are probably right. Some publishers fear that if Alliance becomes a monopoly that they'll be shut out of the market (and some of them, especially the low end of the low end, are probably right).

My battles with distributors are legendary. I have honest and open relationships with them; no punches are pulled, and I know that some of the best and brightest people in the industry work for some of the distributors. They know I think they need to add value to remain relevant, and I know they think that they're indispensable parts of the market, that things would be much worse without them. It's a constant back & forth, from which I gain a lot of interesting perspective and insight. I don't wish any of them personal harm, but I do hope the distribution tier, as a group, changes to add more value.

then all that remains is to get them the games.

There is a huge flaw in your logic here. Don't feel bad. The whole gaming industry is based on that flaw. The flaw is this:

Once you give people an open-ended toolbox of a game, and encourage them to make their own content for it, why do they need to keep buying products?

The biggest competitor to 3E wasn't White Wolf, or Palladium, or any other publisher's game. It was 2E, and 1E, and OD&D. Likewise, White Wolf's new World of Darkness games don't have to overcome D20, they have to overcome previous editions of Vampire.

Most people who play RPGs don't buy RPG products once they've found a game and a group they like. Most people who buy RPG products never use most of what they buy to play a game with, because they can't induce a group to try it, or the game turns out to just not be worth playing. That's a horrible disconnect between market & customers.

The CCG and minis categories are successful because they've embedded the meme that you have to keep buying new product to play the games into the minds of their customers. RPGs need a similar meme, but 30 years of history may make it impossible. Or they can shift to a service-based model (like a MMORPG) where you pay a fee to stay within the network. Or some third alternative I haven't thought of yet.

The internet (much lambasted by the store owners of this current generation) seems to be a thriving medium.

The internet is a great medium for making sales. It's a terrible medium for marketing. It does not do a good job of making geographically local communities. It compromises the core value of tabletop RPGs (the tabletop) -- people who are internet active are likely to look for or prefer an internet game. Big games have a long term future on the internet. New games from startups require physical shelf space to catch the eye of browsers who might not otherwise have heard of, or considered purchasing them. The internet is lousy at replicating that experience.

Ryan
 

RyanD said:
It compromises the core value of tabletop RPGs (the tabletop) -- people who are internet active are likely to look for or prefer an internet game.


That's a leap I do not believe actually follows. Some, perhaps even many, might play an Internet game as a alternative when a tabletop game canot be found but those who enjoy tabletop RPGs, IME, do not view online gaming as an actual substitute or preference.
 

Mark CMG said:
That's a leap I do not believe actually follows. Some, perhaps even many, might play an Internet game as a alternative when a tabletop game canot be found but those who enjoy tabletop RPGs, IME, do not view online gaming as an actual substitute or preference.

I dunno, its pretty close to the mark with my group. When we can't do tabletop we play games over XBOX Live and the occasional MMO. We're all dying to get our hands on the Conan MMO when it hits 360. He's right in saying tabletop is high maintainence expecially when you have 2 kids.
 

JVisgaitis said:
I dunno, its pretty close to the mark with my group. When we can't do tabletop we play games over XBOX Live and the occasional MMO. We're all dying to get our hands on the Conan MMO when it hits 360. He's right in saying tabletop is high maintainence expecially when you have 2 kids.


I think you have missed what I am saying while agreeing with me (as I point out by bolding a bit of your post in my quote). The preference is for tabletop, the alternative (not the substitute) is another type. You seem to be saying that if you had the time and ability to do either, you'd prefer RPG tabletop gaming. That's my contention. However, from this and other (past) threads, I get the impression that RyanD believe that they are interchangable and that he believes most people see it as such. It is with that contention (if I have been reading him right) that I do not concur.
 

RyanD said:
I think there's a good chance, probably 50/50, that we'll see a 3.75 kind of release in 2007 or 2008. A new set of core books, revised, but basically the same game we already have. I think that product will not be called "4th Edition", nor will it be marketed as 4th Edition. There are powerful forces inside WotC that believe (not without quite a bit of market research and product experience to back them up) that gamers will buy a "revision" to a games' core rules every 3-4 years and that not inducing those purchases is just leaving money on the table.Ryan

I, for one, would support a revision or "3.75" that adds a lot of the new base classes, feats, PrCs, etc. I like this market research. :p
 

Mark CMG said:
The preference is for tabletop, the alternative (not the substitute) is another type. You seem to be saying that if you had the time and ability to do either, you'd prefer RPG tabletop gaming.

OK, now I see what your saying. Yeah, that's true for me, but he specified the young generation which I don't disagree with. Also, some people from my group are happy doing what we're doing now so they did find a substitute.
 

Ryan, that's not what I meant when I said "all that remains is to get them the game".

When you mention that you've fought legendary battles to get distributors to see that they need to provide some service only they can provide to add value to their existence--I'm right there with you.

Let's ignore deadlines (say if we're talking collectibles, that the next DDM release isn't 4 months from the previous one, but whenever the market demands that release. . . . ) and accept lower margins (by making smaller print runs, many of your comments are geared towards speculating on what the lower end of the market is doing (since the big guys innovation is tragically flawed) and thus this is already the norm). What then does a distributor do for me? Product is coming as quickly as my small hypothetical staff can make it, which = as fast as the customer wants it +/- some initial error at start-up. Let's think LEAN here. Again--why do I NEED a distributor? Why would the lack thereof drive the hobby into a downspiral???

The things they provide--getting product everywhere on the same day for a release, letting all the game stores they reckognize as game stores (remember I'm just a customer--I might be getting this wrong and shorting this list here), previewing releases with promotional materials. Most of all of this is behind the scenes.

What if I sell on the internet. Marketing is horrible on the internet??? Maybe in pure dollars terms compared to what's spent on TV, but since the price of a TV ad is beyond the scope of even the big six--of what consequence is that? The internet is supposed to be a hot-bed of innovation. A way for dreams to be born. Isn't the bottom line of your predictions just that bad business savvy and a wont to live in the past is what's shackling the potential of the gaming industry? You seem to want new games and new ways to play them. Capitalism supports what works and kills what doesn't. Towards that end, I say again, that any potential gloom in your 07 predictions is only good! Maybe I can't exactly describe in what ways the downfall of entrenched gaming companies will foster new games and new market growth--but I will stand by my statement that some serious trouble at the top can only open up the potential of the new blood that carries the greatest potential of innovating the whole industry. My keystone for the next year or two in my own consumer-minded interest in gaming will be on the small start-ups like Corvus Belli (admittely, European). But, there will always be disposable cash, unless we start putting lead in our pipes and go out like the Romans, and we've got some 25 years--supposing nobody joins the hobby (I think we're ridiculously loyal to the IDEA of gaming)--where we'll still have a widespread gaming community to tap for potential cash-flow when developing that new game that will capture the next generation.

I did very much appreciate your elaboration on your views of the industry leaders, and my apologies for not knowing more of your situation viz WotC. I will be following your blog avidly.
 

jedijon said:
Again--why do I NEED a distributor? Why would the lack thereof drive the hobby into a downspiral???

The answer to that depends on who you are.

Are you a customer? Then that answer hinges on whether you need a game store (whether brick & mortar, online or something else).

Are you a game store? You need a distributor to manage your time. All of the game stores I know personally do not have hours and hours to spend ordering from literally hundreds of game companies. Having to set up an account with each game company is very labor intensive, especially the ones where you only need one or two products. Let's not mention the customer that wants a special order from a company that you don't normally carry.

Are you a game producer? Unless you are one of the largest, you need them to get your product in the stores. Without distributors, because of the above problems mentioned for retailers, you have to convince each game store to deal with you. In fact, you have to spend a lot of time selling your product to individual stores, rather than a few distributors.

Without distributors, only the top few companies would have their products carried in the game stores. A game store would only deal with companies that is worth their time to carry. Dealing with WotC or Gamesworkshop gives them hundreds of products their is a market for. Dealing with say Inner Circle games requires time and effort for a few products that their customers might not even be interest in. Multiply that by the number of game companies out there with only a limited number of products.

Sure, some smaller game companies might band together (sort of like what happened with White Wolf during the early d20 years). However, that is really creating distributors under a slightly different paradigm.

Distributors really are needed in the game industry. However, based on my experiences secondhand with them, I think that if one entered the market with a very different idea of what the experience could be for stores, retailers, and maybe even the end user, than they could easily take over. There is lots of room for improvement (unfortunately, I'm not sure the profits are there to encourage that).
 

RyanD said:
Most people who play RPGs don't buy RPG products once they've found a game and a group they like.

The CCG and minis categories are successful because they've embedded the meme that you have to keep buying new product to play the games into the minds of their customers. RPGs need a similar meme, but 30 years of history may make it impossible.

Okay, but how could you possibly structure that? The fact is, once you've got the core rules, you simply do not need anything else.

I could see a company trying to sell the notion that they would provide the adventures, where each adventure is a deluxe boxed set including minis, dungeon tiles for the floorplans, and so forth... but adventures are generally poor sellers.

Similarly, I could see a company producing electronic adventures is a better format than the current pdf standard, where as the adventure progresses the DM uses the interface to make changes interactively (for example, the adventure automatically calculates creature response to an incursion). Such a format would probably be better than most DMs could create on their own without excessive investment of time (which says nothing about the quality of the adventure itself, of course). The problem there, again, is that adventures don't sell well.

They could try not publishing an MM 4e, with a view that to get monster stats DMs would have to buy the adventures produced and/or the minis. But, I see this resulting in one of two outcomes: either 4e will be abandonned by the community in favour of sticking with what we have, or the fan community will pick up the slack with an online database of monsters new and old.

Likewise, an attempt to revert to the old BD&D model of Basic/Expert/Companion/Masters/Immortals rules would probably meet heavy resistence from existing players - if I'm investing in the game, I want all the rules in a compiled and easy-to-reference form.

You could deliberately insert power creep into the supplements of the game... but this works best in a competitive rather than cooperative model. And, in any case, it is reliant on players being empowered with the thinking that the DM must allow any supplement into his game... which I for one will never accept (as carte blanche).

So, what levers do the companies really have?
 

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