Combo Question - Hand Crossbow And Mystic Theurge

rgard · May 15, 2007

Nazhkandrias said:
Well, thanks for all the tips! On the note of the Mystic Theurge, yeah, now that I think about it, it is a little underpowered. I'd love to have a Mystic Theurge NPC tag along (quite literally a spell for every occasion), but I'm not sure I'd want to play one. Sorry for the mistake concerning Battle Caster, I forgot that little detail. I guess that if it seems to good to be true, it probably is... unless it's in the hands of a munchkin.

<snip>

Thank you all for the help, I'm probably going to look into the Ur-Priest now.

The Ur-Priest/Wiz/MT is a fun combo. You'll need a class that has the bluff skill as a class skill early on to qualify for Ur-Priest and will need a class with a good fort save too. I initially built mine with a Paladin of Freedom (has bluff as a class skill and the good fort save; is in UA), then had the paladin 'fall' at second level and became a wizard. Had to fall as the Ur-Priest is evil.

You could also try the Aristocrat or Noble (not sure which it is named) over in the house rules section here on EN World. It has bluff, 2 good saves, fort and will. It's a nice class.

There are other ways to build the above, it just depends on how fast you want to get to MT while your divine progression works off the Ur-Priest.

Thanks,
Rich

Edit: decided I should spell my name correctly.

rgard · May 15, 2007

Also, the Battle Caster is a fun way addition to this. You can go Beguiler or Warmage or Battle Sorcerer, then add Battle Caster to get to medium armor.

If you have 8 straight levels of Warmage you get to medium armor with no ASF and the Battle Caster feat then takes you to heavy armor with no ASF.

There is the Urban Savant prc in Cityscape that gets you light armored casting too.

Thanks,
Rich

Particle_Man · May 15, 2007

Hand crossbows can be useful for stealth situations, as they are easier to hide than, say, heavy crossbows. With a creative use of disable device and craft (trapmaking), maybe you can disassemble one into harmless looking component parts to slip past the guards, and reassemble it once you are "inside", a la James Bond.

And I think there is an assassin spell in one of the splats that lets you use death attack from 30 feat away "sniper's eye"? This would be worth a wand.

John Q. Mayhem · May 15, 2007

If you can, get a dart thruster from Underdark. 3-shot hand crossbows.

moritheil · May 15, 2007

As no one has pointed out Fast-MT yet, it falls to me to do the dirty work.

IF your DM allows splatbook material, there is a feat called Precocious Apprentice that can be taken at 1st level. It allows a mage to cast a single 2nd-level spell, once per day, with a successful spellcraft check.

IF your DM interprets this as satisfying "able to cast 2nd-level spells", you can get by with one level in the mage class of your choice and three levels in cleric. This enables you to get into MT two levels sooner.

It is also hotly debated in terms of legality and balance. As to balance, people usually agree that the MT is weak, so this is the lesser issue. Regarding legality, everyone has his or her own idea of what "able to cast spells" should entail. Some don't like it because the Prec App only knows and can only cast one 2nd-level spell (but then, a 4th-level sorcerer only knows and can only cast one 2nd-level spell.)

IF your DM allows Dragon magazine material, there is a feat called Theurgic casting that every MT should have: it allows you to add your caster levels when casting a spell that appears on both of your spell lists.

lukelightning · May 15, 2007

If you really want to cast wizard and cleric spells, just take leadership and get a cleric or wizard cohort.

Corsair · May 15, 2007

moritheil said:
As no one has pointed out Fast-MT yet, it falls to me to do the dirty work.

IF your DM allows splatbook material, there is a feat called Precocious Apprentice that can be taken at 1st level. It allows a mage to cast a single 2nd-level spell, once per day, with a successful spellcraft check.

IF your DM interprets this as satisfying "able to cast 2nd-level spells", you can get by with one level in the mage class of your choice and three levels in cleric. This enables you to get into MT two levels sooner.

The default "official" answer from CustServ is that this doesn't work.

moritheil · May 15, 2007

Corsair said:
The default "official" answer from CustServ is that this doesn't work.

I included the option because some DMs find it to be reasonable, and I included the above caveats as well out of respect for the opposite position.

The reason behind the "default official answer" is a statement by the authors of that feat that they did not intend for that to be a possible use of the feat. I have difficulty accepting that as a valid line of reasoning because DnD has from its inception been about putting together things in new and clever ways to deliver unexpected results. Accepting that would further imply that no one could ever use a feat or ability to do anything not explicitly approved.

And as you alluded, CustServ is not in the business of giving official corrections.

Darklone · May 15, 2007

Handcrossbows:
Ftr2/Rog5/Asn3 halfling. TWF, ITWF, PBS, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, Crossbow Sniper (PHB2). Xbow damage 1d3+3 or +4 ... depending on your dex.

Sneak attacks +5d6 for 6 attacks to 60ft range.

Use wands of Reduce Person (more to hit and dex bonus to damage thanks to Crossbow Sniper), Cats Grace, Flame Arrow (plus energy substituted Flame arrow for cold, acid and lightning damage) to boost your damage in case of no sneak attack damage. Poison is possible but not mandatory. Heroism is a nice long time buff to hit better and has the same duration as your Flame Arrow wands. Edit: Haste boots!

Improved Initiative and the luck feat in CScoundrel that allows rerolls of initiative checks helps to get the drop with full attack actions on your enemies.

TWF and Rapid Shot penalty seems like a lot but IMX this build hits like hell.

nittanytbone · May 15, 2007

Darklone said:
Handcrossbows:
Ftr2/Rog5/Asn3 halfling. TWF, ITWF, PBS, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, Crossbow Sniper (PHB2). Xbow damage 1d3+3 or +4 ... depending on your dex.

TWF and Rapid Shot penalty seems like a lot but IMX this build hits like hell.

Or you could just go with PBS --> Precise Shot --> Rapid Shot and a composite long bow, which lets you add your STR bonus to damage. Requires a lot fewer feats for the same punch.

Combo Question - Hand Crossbow And Mystic Theurge

rgard

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