Keep your filthy points of light away from me!
- Thread starter Kae'Yoss
- Start date
HelloChristian
First Post
Points of Light makes a lot of sense to me. The MM is full of beasties that are bigger, meaner, faster and stronger than humans. Surely hordes of orcs, gobbos and other critters would have acted as a check on any developing human nation? It's nice to see a diversion from the tired Eurpoean feudal model.
Man in the Funny Hat
Hero
If this is indeed the case, I MIGHT be moved to rescind my vow to never, EVER run the Forgotten Realms campaign setting again. I doubt it though.BlackMoria said:
Guild Goodknife
Explorer
Kae'Yoss said:
First, the FR have always been Points of Lightish. Just read the FRCs, especially Elminsters introduction. How you played the Realms is a different beast.
Second, as others have already pointed out, RSE have been used in the past to explain rules changes. Heck, i prefer them over massive changes for which we didn't get any explanation (Sorcerers, demihumanoid paladins, monks, etc.)
You couldn't play historical campaigns with the 3rd Ed. rules because of the massive changes from 2nd to 3rd (well, you could but it required your suspension of disbelief, something me and my group never had a problem with)
howandwhy99
Adventurer
The reason I don't really care if 4th edition changes all the "fluff" of D&D is because mechanics don't dictate setting.
EDIT: Maybe genre, but not setting.
If you disagree, please help me understand how so. Not to argue, just understand.
Changing the core story of the game may not be wise from a brand point of view, but it doesn't negate playing the original story under new rules. It's more like releasing a second novel under the same title - sort of a "I thought this was Moby Dick?" confusion.
Why are they changing Forgotten Realms then? I would say they need fresh material to publish that isn't accessible from multiple books already on the market. It is their flagship setting and, while perhaps not "played out", certainly "published out". Little of the core world is not already in print. (Or more precisely OOP)
The other reason is they need their flagship setting to accurately represent their core rules for campaign construction.
The setting creation rules are changing, as they've said. Points of Light (PoL) is not, I repeat not, the only style of setting 4e D&D will be functional under. That would be a completely boneheaded idea not to mention a phenomenally good way to lose market share. Wizards is far too intelligent to do this.
So, the current 3e Forgotten Realms will be more than playable under the 4e rules. You heard it here first. You do not need to buy the new FR setting books, but WotC does need a means to create new material to sell those books. This is a fine decision IMHO.
EDIT: Maybe genre, but not setting.
If you disagree, please help me understand how so. Not to argue, just understand.
Changing the core story of the game may not be wise from a brand point of view, but it doesn't negate playing the original story under new rules. It's more like releasing a second novel under the same title - sort of a "I thought this was Moby Dick?" confusion.
Why are they changing Forgotten Realms then? I would say they need fresh material to publish that isn't accessible from multiple books already on the market. It is their flagship setting and, while perhaps not "played out", certainly "published out". Little of the core world is not already in print. (Or more precisely OOP)
The other reason is they need their flagship setting to accurately represent their core rules for campaign construction.
The setting creation rules are changing, as they've said. Points of Light (PoL) is not, I repeat not, the only style of setting 4e D&D will be functional under. That would be a completely boneheaded idea not to mention a phenomenally good way to lose market share. Wizards is far too intelligent to do this.
So, the current 3e Forgotten Realms will be more than playable under the 4e rules. You heard it here first. You do not need to buy the new FR setting books, but WotC does need a means to create new material to sell those books. This is a fine decision IMHO.
Last edited:
howandwhy99
Adventurer
As an aside, PoL is not about changing what worlds D&D is functional within. It is about simplifying world creation for DMs. Yes, faster campaign design and construction for all those overworked DMs. That's a central tenet of 4e and I believe this is one of its' main thrusts.
IMO, PoL is exactly what Erik Mona referenced in Green Ronin's last podcast. That Gary Gygax had a specific modular means for building worlds. And that it was a common means of constructing worlds throughout early D&D. I actually use a similar method I've posted about in length before; it aims to simplify construction using concentric rings and KotB's philosophy. Gygax did this with Greyhawk moving outward from the original city.
The odd thing is, Greenwood used this same syncretizing method for Forgotten Realms. His style was to rainbow high mountains over a southern water border. First was Cormyr, the setting in miniature. Then he rainbowed over it to include the Dales, the Moonsea, and the Vast bordered by the Sea of Fallen Stars below. This was big enough for a setting, but after it was played out he moved West. So when FR was originally published we get the Western Heartlands as so much of what fans first fell in love with. Then he moved North and slowly filled out all the peripherals.
I assume Wizards know how EG created the Realms and will be recreating them with this in mind. It's a fine setting and, if anything, will probably be easier to DM in and more closely resemble the original grey boxset than the massive novel laden world it is now.
Not that you can't run it circa 2007 too.
IMO, PoL is exactly what Erik Mona referenced in Green Ronin's last podcast. That Gary Gygax had a specific modular means for building worlds. And that it was a common means of constructing worlds throughout early D&D. I actually use a similar method I've posted about in length before; it aims to simplify construction using concentric rings and KotB's philosophy. Gygax did this with Greyhawk moving outward from the original city.
The odd thing is, Greenwood used this same syncretizing method for Forgotten Realms. His style was to rainbow high mountains over a southern water border. First was Cormyr, the setting in miniature. Then he rainbowed over it to include the Dales, the Moonsea, and the Vast bordered by the Sea of Fallen Stars below. This was big enough for a setting, but after it was played out he moved West. So when FR was originally published we get the Western Heartlands as so much of what fans first fell in love with. Then he moved North and slowly filled out all the peripherals.
I assume Wizards know how EG created the Realms and will be recreating them with this in mind. It's a fine setting and, if anything, will probably be easier to DM in and more closely resemble the original grey boxset than the massive novel laden world it is now.
Not that you can't run it circa 2007 too.
After reading all the responses here, I think I can only summise that I shall be turning the lights out on D&D.
After playing and Dming for twenty years, this annoys me and leaves me with the bitter taste of disgust in my mouth.
All this 4e rule changes are moving away from the game I enjoyed to play. As I see it, I may as well go and play WOW.
They (WotC) did test the waters in the new digital realm of mmorpg's and failed. 4e looks like a half-baked attempt at the inbetween of digital and PnP roleplaying to me. At least in the old days it took ages to create content on paper, with the growth of the digital age came the possibility of greater things. Now I'm left with the feeling of loosing what I loved so much.
At least when it was all PnP you could play no matter if you where using hand-drawn paper notes and maps, computer enhanced worlds on printouts, scribed on parchment or some other form of paper in a variety of mediums, it was called D&D and was known as Dungeons & Dragons. I now feel it is going down the road of Digital & Dead.
So with this rant, I guess it's good bye to my first and oldest hobby and will have to try and find either a CRPG that might come close to my wants, but this 4e is not why or what I want to play ANYMORE....
After playing and Dming for twenty years, this annoys me and leaves me with the bitter taste of disgust in my mouth.
All this 4e rule changes are moving away from the game I enjoyed to play. As I see it, I may as well go and play WOW.
They (WotC) did test the waters in the new digital realm of mmorpg's and failed. 4e looks like a half-baked attempt at the inbetween of digital and PnP roleplaying to me. At least in the old days it took ages to create content on paper, with the growth of the digital age came the possibility of greater things. Now I'm left with the feeling of loosing what I loved so much.
At least when it was all PnP you could play no matter if you where using hand-drawn paper notes and maps, computer enhanced worlds on printouts, scribed on parchment or some other form of paper in a variety of mediums, it was called D&D and was known as Dungeons & Dragons. I now feel it is going down the road of Digital & Dead.
So with this rant, I guess it's good bye to my first and oldest hobby and will have to try and find either a CRPG that might come close to my wants, but this 4e is not why or what I want to play ANYMORE....
Wormwood
Adventurer
Shealladh said:
Before you abandon tabletop play *entirely*, you way want to consider a couple of factors:
1. Don;t switch to 4e. Keep on doing what you are doing now!
2. There are still groups that play older versions of D&D---and there always will be. Find them or start such a group yourself.
3. The hobby is teeming with roleplaying games of every stripe---there is bound to be one suited to your tastes! I'm sure there are people on this very board who could help you find the perfect game for you. Hell, I'd love to help!
4. Finally, you could wait and see what 4e is actually like before you chuck your dice in the bin. 4e could rock on toast or stink on ice, but nobody will know that until it's released. And if it's the digital initiative that bothers you, my suggestion would be to ignore it.
I'm just saying there may yet be hope yet, and I'd hate for the RPG hobby to lose a member as passionate as you obviously are over something as trivial as a new edition of D&D.
Matrix Sorcica
Hero
Take care out there.Shealladh said:
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