Jonathan Tweet denounces Power Attack

sidonunspa · Nov 19, 2007

JohnSnow said:
Umm, not to belittle your feelings, but that sounds like a bug to me. Power attacking with a rapier just seems wrong... :\

Ever fight with one?

There are quite a few moves that relay on strength over finesse (see the way Porthos fights in the 3 musketeers, Disney version as well as others)

I can recall a move where you power though your opponent’s parry and push into your opponent with all your might... the move is pure strength; the finesse is all in putting the blade where you want it where you can force the opening.

Lastly Rapiers can cut as well as thrust, D&D developers seem to get the rapier confused with the small sword. (See RobRoy for a rapier cutting someone to bits)

Zaruthustran · Nov 19, 2007

I think it should be a a fixed minus to AC in return for a fixed plus to damage. More of a "wild swing" than a "calculated strike".

sidonunspa · Nov 19, 2007

Merlin the Tuna said:
Warblade + Diamond Mind is how manly men make swashbucklers, just so you know.

Just never felt swashbuckley enough... I'm of the old rogue/fighter (or swashbuckler base class) mindset...

Zaruthustran · Nov 19, 2007

sidonunspa said:
Lastly Rapiers can cut as well as thrust, D&D developers seem to get the rapier confused with the small sword. (See RobRoy for a rapier cutting someone to bits)

These are the same developers that don't seem to accept that longswords can be used to thrust. (see any movie featuring longswords, ever, for example of someone getting stabbed with a sword).

frankthedm · Nov 19, 2007

Power attack was the gateway to many ways to push a character's damage output beyond acceptable amounts.

If one tried to determine "How much damage should a melee character be dealing at a given level" power attack skewed those numbers far too easily since any buff that gave +1 to hit could be melted down to +2 to damage. A bulls str or a low level rage could be fluxed from +2 to hit and +2 to damage to just +6 to damage by third character level.

sidonunspa · Nov 19, 2007

Zaruthustran said:
These are the same developers that don't seem to accept that longswords can be used to thrust. (see any movie featuring longswords, ever, for example of someone getting stabbed with a sword).

QFT

Najo · Nov 19, 2007

Reaper Steve said:
How about a scaling power attack that's still a binary decision point?

Power attack: add only 1/2 your BAB to your attack roll. If you hit, add 1/2 of your BAB to the damage roll.

This way it scales as you level without requiring extra feat slots (improved and greater versions) but it's still a use-it/don't use it choice.

This is the best option so far.

* Scales with level
* On/ Off (which is better than always on IMHO, power attack feels like a combat option not a requirment by its very name).
* Feels like a power attack.

I think the only way to improve upon it is to make it a combat option that gives a bonus to damage but opens the player up to an AC penalty or an attack of opportunity or some other misfortune. That way it doesn't subtract from the to hit roll, which has always felt a little weird. But over all I like Reaper Steve's suggestion alot.

Deset Gled · Nov 19, 2007

Gah! There is a really simple design point here that WotC keeps dancing around without ever saying directly.

You cannot balance open ended bonuses.

This is a lesson we have learned many times. We learned it in damage reduction, with the problem of the skeletons "1/2 damage from slashing weapons" DR. We learned it in AC with all of the debates around the Monk's Belt. We learned it in charging with Rhino Hide armor. And here, we learned it one more time with Power Attack.

WotC must learn to stop giving things open ended bonuses. Until they do, they will find something to "revise" in every edition they ever produce, because balance will change in every splat book they release, eventually ending in some open ended bonus being labeled "broken".

Merlin the Tuna · Nov 19, 2007

Edit: Off topic. Carry on.

sidonunspa · Nov 19, 2007

Merlin the Tuna said:
Edit: Off topic. Carry on.

lol never seen that before...

maybe a flat +5/-5 will end up replacing power attack..

still be useful, but standerd...

Jonathan Tweet denounces Power Attack

sidonunspa

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Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!

sidonunspa

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Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!

frankthedm

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sidonunspa

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Najo

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Deset Gled

.

Merlin the Tuna

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sidonunspa

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