The Unstoppable Black Dragon
- Thread starter takasi
- Start date
Drezden327
First Post
The odds on winning the Black Dragon Fight were no better than 10%.
My party of 6 experienced, tactical players, who play as a team got shredded. We didn't do anything wrong - the dice rolled bad for us and good for the Dragon.
We won initiative and let our Front liners go in first - the Dragon was in a corner covered in inpenetrable darkness. DM said only a light spell would help - Wizard went in and cast light revealing Dragon. Remaining party members came out of delay and spread out - so Dragon couldn't concentrate his breath weapon.
Dragon approached and still got 5 PCs in his Frightful Prescence - which goes 5 Squares in all Directions. Most PCs were stunned and now at -2 to hit. I (playing Archer) used action point to get away - and retreated into corner. We were really spread out - but Breath Weapon (which came next round) goes in all directions! Most of room was covered, although Warlock and myself managed to avoid it. Big deal. I was the only with even a "decent" shot at hitting him. His AC was 24 and both Will and Reflex defense were at least 22.
We used many daily powers but it was hard to hit with them too. DM rolled a 5 (5 or 6 on d6 let him breath again) on re-charge and was able to breath again the next round. Round 4 was a full attack to finish off Paladin and Round 5 DM rolled a 6 and we got the breath weapon for the 3rd time. This finished off Fighter and Cleric.
My archer hit a few times - including 1 crit., but everyone else was really having trouble - I think we did about 120 HPs or so of damage. Thankfully we didn't hit the 140 HP mark or he would have gotten another free breath attack! I was able to use the awesome Racial Dimensional Hop ability to get away, but 4 of the other PCs were not so lucky.
Bottom line was you needed both good tactics and favorable die rolls to even have a chance against the Dragon.
BTW - our group crushed all of the other encounters in both the delve and the 2 preview encounters. As Mearls said, the system really does encourage (require) teamwork with all of the different tactical options everyone has.
Daren
My party of 6 experienced, tactical players, who play as a team got shredded. We didn't do anything wrong - the dice rolled bad for us and good for the Dragon.
We won initiative and let our Front liners go in first - the Dragon was in a corner covered in inpenetrable darkness. DM said only a light spell would help - Wizard went in and cast light revealing Dragon. Remaining party members came out of delay and spread out - so Dragon couldn't concentrate his breath weapon.
Dragon approached and still got 5 PCs in his Frightful Prescence - which goes 5 Squares in all Directions. Most PCs were stunned and now at -2 to hit. I (playing Archer) used action point to get away - and retreated into corner. We were really spread out - but Breath Weapon (which came next round) goes in all directions! Most of room was covered, although Warlock and myself managed to avoid it. Big deal. I was the only with even a "decent" shot at hitting him. His AC was 24 and both Will and Reflex defense were at least 22.
We used many daily powers but it was hard to hit with them too. DM rolled a 5 (5 or 6 on d6 let him breath again) on re-charge and was able to breath again the next round. Round 4 was a full attack to finish off Paladin and Round 5 DM rolled a 6 and we got the breath weapon for the 3rd time. This finished off Fighter and Cleric.
My archer hit a few times - including 1 crit., but everyone else was really having trouble - I think we did about 120 HPs or so of damage. Thankfully we didn't hit the 140 HP mark or he would have gotten another free breath attack! I was able to use the awesome Racial Dimensional Hop ability to get away, but 4 of the other PCs were not so lucky.
Bottom line was you needed both good tactics and favorable die rolls to even have a chance against the Dragon.
BTW - our group crushed all of the other encounters in both the delve and the 2 preview encounters. As Mearls said, the system really does encourage (require) teamwork with all of the different tactical options everyone has.
Daren
LordArchaon
Explorer
Aurick said:
It's aquatic and we know for sure: the leaked statblock specifically states an Aquatic "sub-type", so I guess it breaths normally under water.
EDIT:
Sorry, you were faster than me replying.Kordeth said:
About synergy of breath weapon with water and environment, I really hope it makes it in the final version, and I hope many monsters or why not even PC feats or powers will rely on environment, to give a bit more playing-depth to it.
Last edited:
themilkman
First Post
My group got TPKed by the big mean dragon.
Our ranger insisted on playing by 3.5 rules (not shooting into melee, for one) even after being reminded of the new rules. Hence, he was totally useless in the first two encounters and died by charging into melee in the third encounter. This eliminated a lot of our single-target damage potential. Also, most of our characters had trouble hitting the dragon, but the +10 to careful shot would have been nice.
The five of us who were left did 200 damage in 20 rounds, including a crit from the Fighter's daily. All the other dailies missed. The DM had a few lucky rolls to recharge the breath weapon, we made a lot of bad saves against ongoing acid damage, and that was that. I'm sure the ranger could have put down the other 90 damage in 20 rounds, but without him, we were boned.
Coincidentally, I also got TPKed in the first adventure. We started without a Warlock, and a certain multiple-exploding skeleton killed both of our defenders in the third encounter. Going through the final encounter with just two casters and a striker did not end well.
Our ranger insisted on playing by 3.5 rules (not shooting into melee, for one) even after being reminded of the new rules. Hence, he was totally useless in the first two encounters and died by charging into melee in the third encounter. This eliminated a lot of our single-target damage potential. Also, most of our characters had trouble hitting the dragon, but the +10 to careful shot would have been nice.
The five of us who were left did 200 damage in 20 rounds, including a crit from the Fighter's daily. All the other dailies missed. The DM had a few lucky rolls to recharge the breath weapon, we made a lot of bad saves against ongoing acid damage, and that was that. I'm sure the ranger could have put down the other 90 damage in 20 rounds, but without him, we were boned.
Coincidentally, I also got TPKed in the first adventure. We started without a Warlock, and a certain multiple-exploding skeleton killed both of our defenders in the third encounter. Going through the final encounter with just two casters and a striker did not end well.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Drezden327 said:
Box of DOOM!
-Hyp.
DonAdam
Explorer
We beat it.
I was playing the Warlock, crit'd with my daily, but missed with my encounter. Figured out through trial and error that Will was the weak save and kept shooting it with Eyebite.
Several other big helps:
1) The DM rolled like crap the whole time. Dragon only got one, maybe two breath weapons off.
2) Paladin marked it. Combined with #1 and the Paladin's high AC, this meant he was doing very little damage or taking 8 damage to hit someone else.
3) The Fighter's daily let her swing until she hit.
I was playing the Warlock, crit'd with my daily, but missed with my encounter. Figured out through trial and error that Will was the weak save and kept shooting it with Eyebite.
Several other big helps:
1) The DM rolled like crap the whole time. Dragon only got one, maybe two breath weapons off.
2) Paladin marked it. Combined with #1 and the Paladin's high AC, this meant he was doing very little damage or taking 8 damage to hit someone else.
3) The Fighter's daily let her swing until she hit.
ElminstersApprentice
Explorer
I ran Scalegloom Hall for seven slots at DDXP.
I'm certain there would have been TPKs had I not placed tokens for the dragon skin and treasure (the loot sheet), and suggested that escaping with the skin and loot would result in the party successfully completing the adventure and getting the loot sheet, respectively.
The escaping is not in the adventure, but it was a fun option. And a lot of people were broadsided by the encounter difficulty in the first preview, Escape From Sembia. I didn't want to dumb-down the dragon, but I wanted to give the players the option of survival. Most parties fought until the thing was bloodied, then ran when they realized that it had 280 hit points and they were out of healing options.
Only two parties actually killed the dragon, and only one party had no casualties.
The party with no casualties ran, and the fighter only lived because he rolled a 20 while he was down. So he popped back up with 1/4 hit points.
Scott Rouse was at one of the tables that killed the dragon, and there were seven characters with Scott playing a second ranger. Even then I think two characters died and another two were bleeding out by the end of the encounter.
The other table that killed the dragon had two survivors.
Both of the tables that killed the dragon had excellent tactics and some lucky rolls.
Dragons have definitely not lost their magnificence in 4E. I'd say after seven runnings that the party working well together had about a 25% chance of killing the dragon.
I'm certain there would have been TPKs had I not placed tokens for the dragon skin and treasure (the loot sheet), and suggested that escaping with the skin and loot would result in the party successfully completing the adventure and getting the loot sheet, respectively.
The escaping is not in the adventure, but it was a fun option. And a lot of people were broadsided by the encounter difficulty in the first preview, Escape From Sembia. I didn't want to dumb-down the dragon, but I wanted to give the players the option of survival. Most parties fought until the thing was bloodied, then ran when they realized that it had 280 hit points and they were out of healing options.
Only two parties actually killed the dragon, and only one party had no casualties.
The party with no casualties ran, and the fighter only lived because he rolled a 20 while he was down. So he popped back up with 1/4 hit points.
Scott Rouse was at one of the tables that killed the dragon, and there were seven characters with Scott playing a second ranger. Even then I think two characters died and another two were bleeding out by the end of the encounter.
The other table that killed the dragon had two survivors.
Both of the tables that killed the dragon had excellent tactics and some lucky rolls.
Dragons have definitely not lost their magnificence in 4E. I'd say after seven runnings that the party working well together had about a 25% chance of killing the dragon.
