Long-Term Injury Fun?

Mustrum_Ridcully · Mar 15, 2008

Pbartender said:
I've got a long way to go, before I've read all the replies to this thread, but I wanted to post before I forgot.

That's awfully close to what I'm planning. Here goes:

First, for my campaign, we go under the assumption that to a large degree, hit points reflect your character's ability to keep fighting his best in combat, and not necessarily his actual wounds. Also, that means a character with full hit points isn't necessarily physically healed... he's just in his best fighting trim.

So.

Hits taken between Max HP and Bloodied are generally considered insignificant. It accounts for exertion to avoid serious damage, and minor cits, scrapes and bruises. They have no real lasting effect at all.

Any hit that results in total hit points less than Bloodied, but more than 0, would be considered a "wound", for lack of a better term. These are injuries that are by no means life threatening by themselves and do not appreciably impair fighting ability, but will leave a long-lasting physical mark, once healed. For every such hit, players simply make a tally mark on their character sheet. A modest Heal check allows a player to erase one of these "wounds". If left unattended, after a few days, these marks become superficial scars that have no mechanical penalty or benefit other than allowing the player-character to look tough... Effectively these are the "criss-crossing spiderweb of tiny scars that denote a veteran warrior" that you always read about in descriptions of fictional fantasy heroes like Conan the Barbarian.

A hit that sends a character to 0 or less hit points would be considered a "mortal wound". these are wounds that are considered life threatening, hence requiring saving throws to survive. This time, the player describes his character's hideous wound, and writes it down on his sheet, "A Northern Barbarian sunk his battleaxe halfway through Sir Harvey's leg at the battle of Camford, causing him to fall." If the character survives, a difficult Heal check can remove the mortal wound. Without a heal check, in a few weeks the mortal wound turns into a distinctive battle scar -- a missing ear, a crooked nose, a hideously burned face, a limp, a raspy voice -- which is added to the character's description. Again, aside from bragging rights, recognition, and a good tale to tell the locals in the taverns, they have no real mechanical benefit or penalty.

Now... Back to the rest of the thread.

I would change the bolded part to "first hit" (possibly with the qualifier "per encounter"). I don't think I'd want to suddenly add half a dozen of wounds to a character just because he is below half his hit points. (And it would get worse if the character recieves multiple healings per encounter and reaches bloodied several times.)

Generally I think Bloodied and 0 hit points are the points where it makes the most sense to consider adding an injury system to the game. Wether you implement it with a injury penalty to checks and rolls, speed loss, defense reduction, healing surge reaction, or the number of singing birds flying around the characters head...

MichaelK · Mar 15, 2008

I'm of two minds on this subject.

Firstly, if I describe a soldier walking along crippled (perhaps for the PC cleric to heal, whatever), then I'd like such an event to be achievable in the rules. Events "off camera" should run by the same rules as the events "on camera".

I also think that a game needs something to slow it down, whether it's training or research or crafting or healing from injuries. I've had so many characters begin the game on the verge of adulthood, and complete their prestige classes before they're old enough to drink and vote in the real world.

(incidentally the Pendragon time management system is one of my favourites).

Finally it creates something inbetween Alive and Dead which D&D has been lacking. (Though I hear bloodied may be something along those lines). Good for creating some fear and negative consequences without a PC actually dying.

On the other hand, being injured mid-adventure and being stuck with nothing to do can really suck the fun out of the session. Also as someone pointed out before, most of these effects will be just a spell away.

ruleslawyer · Mar 15, 2008

FitzTheRuke said:
Sure, easily, and I thought I already had.

Injury has ALWAYS been an aspect of HP. (Hence the term "healing" almost always, even incorrectly at times, used to describe an increase in HP.) As has fatigue. It's just that none of the injuries prevent characters from acting normally, (by which I mean climbing mountains, running, marching, etc) which implies that the injuries are minor. However, the players know (and I'm sure the characters can "feel" it also) that getting into an actual fight in this less-than-perfect condition can mean risking death.

So they sleep it off. This rest restores extreme fatigue and fully closes minor wounds, bruises, and repairs strained muscles. It's not that they couldn't adventure, it's that they feel much better (more ready to take on the world) after a few days rest. Not to mention regain morale about doing it all again. The pychological aspect of HP. (This is how Warlords "heal").

[More good stuff]

I endorse this comment 100%.

Thanks for saying so eloquently what I was trying to express (rather poorly, it seems).

Baron Opal · Mar 15, 2008

After musing on the topic for a while, I was reminded of the "major wound" rules from BRP, specifically the Hawkmoon boxed set. If you take a single wound that does half or more of your hit points in one shot, you take a major wound. You have a modest penalty that goes away once you have healed above your half hit point mark and you roll on a table. 0-50 is "impressive scar". Other results tend to be maimed or missing body parts.

I've been considering this for long-term, magically resistant wounds. Before I consider it I need to see if there are any other long term issues, diseases, regeneration rituals, &c.

Majoru Oakheart · Mar 16, 2008

MichaelK said:
Firstly, if I describe a soldier walking along crippled (perhaps for the PC cleric to heal, whatever), then I'd like such an event to be achievable in the rules. Events "off camera" should run by the same rules as the events "on camera".

(slightly offtopic)
I think you'll be disappointed by 4e, then. One of its main conceits is that the players don't follow the same rules as everyone else. They are the heroes of the story and are the "main characters". They need a list of rules so that the game is fair to the players and fun for them. NPCs are simply set pieces on which to hang the plot on. They only need rules when they come into direct conflict with the players(mostly, combat).

It approaches it much more from the point of view of a novel. When you are writing a novel about a bunch of heroes that go on a quest for a powerful artifact to save the world, when the main characters of the story approach a person on the street and ask about rumors, the person on the street only has ONE reason for being there: to give the PCs information to advance the story. If he doesn't have information that will advance the story, he'll never appear.

Kzach · Mar 16, 2008

Massive Damage

Any single attack that exceeds the character's Bloodied amount, forces a Death Save. Failure results in the character being immediately reduced to 0 hit points. Two more failed Death Saves equals character death.

Wounds

Any critical hit has a chance of doing a significant injury in addition to full damage. Roll a second attack and if this attack is successful, the target suffers a penalty to all defences of -1 per ten points of damage done by the critical.

This effect lasts until magically healed (healing surges do not count). Alternately, the penalty can be reduced by one point per day, per successful Heal check (DC 20, cannot Take 20). Three successive failed Heal checks over three days, results in a permanent -1 penalty to all defences that can only be cured by magic.

In addition, if the second roll is also a natural 20, the character suffers the same amount as the penalty in bleeding damage per round. Only magical healing or a successful Heal check (DC 15) can stop this bleeding.

Lackhand · Mar 19, 2008

Dread Thread Necromancy!
My proposed 'introduce downtime' rule is the Death Flag and the Wounded condition.
With the death flag down:
* Three failed saves while below 0 hp inflicts the Wounded condition, not the Dead condition.
* Falling below 0 hp with no healing surges left also automatically inflicts this condition.
* Falling below the death threshold (negative Bloodied hit points) continues to apply the Dead condition as normal. At the player's discretion OR at the DM's discretion, the wounded condition may be applied if the player is dealt more points of damage than their constitution while unconscious.

With the death flag up:
* The character may use 1 AP/ round (which of course still counts against their total available).
* The character may use as many second winds per combat as they have healing surges available.
* The character immediately gains 1 free AP and 1 free healing surge.
* Falling below 0 hp automatically inflicts the wounded condition.
* Failing 3 saves while below 0 hp inflicts the Dead condition.

Wounded: A character who is wounded suffers three penalties:
1) They do not regain healing surges.
2) They may not have more hit points than their Bloodied number; any abilities which apply until the end of the encounter when bloodied do not apply.
3) They are helpless.

Certain powers overcome certain aspects of this Wounded condition. Healing from any divine character of over 10th level removes condition 3; from a divine character of over 20th level removes condition 2.

Bedrest: Each day of bedrest allows a character to make a save against each of the 3 conditions in reverse order: First, a daily save against "helplessness"; once that's passed, then a daily save against "bloody", then a daily save to again regain healing surges.

Characters can become wounded by pushing too hard, but in the course of regular adventuring, they do not; similarly, it's almost impossible for a character to die now, since they cannot bleed out, but if they _do_ bleed out the wound, while not life threatening, was incapacitating, which means an (expected) week of no adventuring.

Edit: The truly bloody-minded DM might alter the third step of this healing process so that one doesn't regain all healing surges at once, but instead regains constitution-modifier (min 1) surges per day, just to stretch out the recovery time. Similarly, what happens if one is Wounded while already Wounded? I say Death.

Long-Term Injury Fun?

Mustrum_Ridcully

Legend

MichaelK

First Post

ruleslawyer

Registered User

Baron Opal

First Post

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer

Kzach

Banned

Lackhand

First Post

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