Clerics can't heal (NPCs)?

From this link...

Bulette number one dives into the earth so rapidly that the heroes around it don’t get opportunity attacks. Safely in the ground, it heals some damage and then burrows under the heroes, who are now clustered close enough that the bulette can affect them all.

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Erhm........

The text for healing word says:
Effect: the target can spend a healing surge and regain an additional 1d6+4 (most likely cha modifier, but whatever) hps.

Nowhere does it say that if you have no healing surges left (or to begin with) you do not get the additional healing of 1d6+4.

Ergo, anyone without healing surges would just be healed 1d6+4 hps.

That is, unless you have some other source regarding the wording of the healing word?


Cheers

Wrong focus

Derren said:

Imagine the following situation. The 1st level PCs are together with some (not story important) NPCs hunting, escorting, whatever when they get attacked. One of the NPCs gets bloodied and the cleric wants to heal him. How?

We might not see everything, but we know some powers of 1st level PCs including a (the?) battle healing power of 1st level cleric. And this power is not able to heal NPCs.

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From everything we've seen, the central conceit of design for NPCs (monsters included) is stat out only what you need. If you need NPCs to be healed, give them healing surges. If you don't, then don't include it.

You're basing your argument on the fact that a single, at-will power uses a mechanic that is currently not on NPCs that you've seen. Of course, we haven't seen any stats on NPCs yet - only monsters.

If it is so important to have this injured NPC have a healing surge or two, then give it to them. I'd give them 1 + their con mod. Is it a house rule? I don't know - because I don't have the rules to create monsters and NPCs yet. Is it reasonable? Absolutely. Does not knowing somehow break the system? Absolutely not.

3.5 set this expectation that everything had to have a rule somewhere. It's already clear that 4E is getting away from this rigid structure. Is that such a problem?

TheLordWinter said:

I think everyone is making this a bit more complicated than it has to be... a healing surge is 1/4 of your hit points. A cleric's healing word, when used on an NPC, heals them by 1/4 of their hit points plus 1d6. Was that really so hard?

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QFT

It's so obvious I don't know why we're discussing it. It's even been said (though I don't have reference) that if a DM WANTS to bother with this sort of thing they can give 'em the negative-half-HP-and-three-saves-before-they-die too. The stat block is all the information you NEED, not if-its-not-there-it-can't-be-done.

Besides, we haven't seen ANY NPC stat blocks. We've seen MONSTER stat blocks.
Yes, they will be essentially the same. But if you have an in-party ally NPC that you don't want to instantly die, you can easily give 'em a surge. (And for those that argue that this is a housrule or DM handwaving - I seriously doubt it. I'd bet money that this suggestion is mentioned in the rules, or something quite like it.)


Fitz

FitzTheRuke said:

QFT

It's so obvious I don't know why we're discussing it. It's even been said (though I don't have reference) that if a DM WANTS to bother with this sort of thing they can give 'em the negative-half-HP-and-three-saves-before-they-die too. The stat block is all the information you NEED, not if-its-not-there-it-can't-be-done.

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Because somewhere in the world the sky is always falling. Previews are nice but, for some that want to see the glass half-empty, any information not provided is immediately a reason why they should like/not like the changes.

The OP is mistaken in the definition of healing surge, whether and why such a statistic needs to be in a stat block, and what the fact that healing surges aren't in NPC stat blocks means. It's a shame any conclusion was based on these mistaken assumptions.

A healing surge isn't the ability to heal 25% of HP. It's the potential to heal that much or even do other things, based on the trigger/use. A healing surge, then, is a resource tapped by other powers, such as second wind (use a healing surge to heal as a standard action) or the cleric's healing word (allow an ally to use a healing surge to heal and add 1d6 to the total healed).

NPCs and monsters do have a certain number of healing surges. That number is easy to remember, and it makes an NPC or monster far less resilient than an typical PC—on purpose. (PCs are extraordinary heroes of great destiny.) Only exceptions to the norm need to be shown in the stat block.

Most NPCs and monsters aren't exceptional in this way. Therefore, no need exists to repeat in the stat block the basic number of surges a particular NPC or monster might have. So typical statistics don't show that number.

In my game, the 3rd-level PCs have an NPC elf archer (from the MM) with them as a guide. They've had little trouble healing him, since the party's warlord can trigger the archer's healing surges. The archer himself can use his own surges outside of combat.

Plenty of ways can be had to manipulate how surges work in the game. That's part of their fun. Part of the individualization of the D&D game is tinkering with the parts. I can't wait to see the ways DMs customize healing surges in their games.

Cadfan said:

Repeat after me: The rules of the game are not laws of physics.

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The rules of the game are not laws of physics.

Hey! It actually works! I'm feeling better now, thanks and It also helps me to get into the 4E design philosophy.

Derren said:

Thats because NPCs do not have Healing Surges

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NPCs DO have Healing Surges, but we don't see them on their stats because it's usually not necessary. Assigning Healing Surges to all NPCS/monster/etc would be a waste of time and space. When the NPC's Healing Surges are important to the game, they are there.

Cheers!

I'd have to look up the previews to be sure, but I was under the impression that the clerical healing ability healed 1d6 hp and allowed the target to optionally spend a healing surge. So, clerics can still heal NPCs. They just don't cause the Die Hard second (third, eighth, etc.) wind for NPCs. I fail to see either support for the original claim or anything unreasonable in the rules as revealed.

If you also assume that higher level clerical healing grants 2d6, 3d6, etc. in addition to the healing surge (which seems at least as reasonable as the inverse assumption), things are even better. You end up with 4e healing being just a few points worse than 3e (d6 vs. d8 and no +level pips) for NPCs, but with an added "heroic" bonus for those who are both most likely to need it and are supposed to be more heroic. Once again, I'm not seeing an issue with this.

Certainly, there is no grounds for the sky falling.

A RECTUM!

4Elephant can POOOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheLordWinter said:

I think everyone is making this a bit more complicated than it has to be... a healing surge is 1/4 of your hit points. A cleric's healing word, when used on an NPC, heals them by 1/4 of their hit points plus 1d6. Was that really so hard?

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Not for some of us.

The point of simplified stat blocks is to only include information that's directly relevant to the purpose of the stat block. But note that we are talking about a simplification of the "real" stat block, which is a more complicated thing. On the "real" stat block, all the things that Derren repeated claims are missing actually exist. But for almost all situations, we only care about the info listed on the simplified stat block.

Just as when we see full info on social encounters, they probably won't list the attack bonus for all of the NPCs involved, that does not mean that NPCs that talk are incapable of swinging a sword, its that there's no good reason to clutter the information with irrelevant information.