D&D 4E Playing "classless" 4e (I.e. Sub-1st level characters)
- Thread starter Graf
- Start date
Engilbrand
First Post
From what I understand, that goes against one of the reasons for the new edition. If you want everyone to start off more powerful, why would you weaken them?
I've played in a 2e "0-level" campaign before and it was very fun. It was probably one of my more memorable experiences. Here's a few tips on how we did it back then...
Each player rolled their stats, but the DM assigned them secretly and the player never had access to their full character sheet. The reason for this was that, as 0-level characters, we didn't have classes yet, and part of the adventure was letting the characters figure out their strengths and weaknesses, and then find a class that fits.
Our DM would let us ask questions, of course... for instance he might say "Borum is definitely the strongest of the group, and Derek is the wimpiest"
I think each character also only had half a hit dice, no level-bonus for attacks, and no weapon proficiency. EVERY thing we did was based on our stats.... Want to pick some guy's pocket? Roll Dex. Want to ask Pelor for help? Roll Wisdom.
Our adventures were generally "folksy" type things like competing in different events during a town festival, fighting off some town bullies, saving a family from a house fire, etc. Then, things would get REALLY crazy when a pair of goblins would show up. For 0-level characters, defeating a single orc was a great accomplishment and made us town heroes. I think we earned ad-hoc experience for everything we did and once we got to like 50% of what was needed for normal level 2, we'd finally be given level 1 and our choice of class.
My suggestions for 4e:
Use only the Con score for HP (nothing for class).
No attack/defense bonuses for class.
Pick a single weapon proficiency (or none at all).
Maybe pick a single At-Will power, and nothing more!
Have characters pick a single Trained Skill.
Sound good?
Each player rolled their stats, but the DM assigned them secretly and the player never had access to their full character sheet. The reason for this was that, as 0-level characters, we didn't have classes yet, and part of the adventure was letting the characters figure out their strengths and weaknesses, and then find a class that fits.
Our DM would let us ask questions, of course... for instance he might say "Borum is definitely the strongest of the group, and Derek is the wimpiest"
I think each character also only had half a hit dice, no level-bonus for attacks, and no weapon proficiency. EVERY thing we did was based on our stats.... Want to pick some guy's pocket? Roll Dex. Want to ask Pelor for help? Roll Wisdom.
Our adventures were generally "folksy" type things like competing in different events during a town festival, fighting off some town bullies, saving a family from a house fire, etc. Then, things would get REALLY crazy when a pair of goblins would show up. For 0-level characters, defeating a single orc was a great accomplishment and made us town heroes. I think we earned ad-hoc experience for everything we did and once we got to like 50% of what was needed for normal level 2, we'd finally be given level 1 and our choice of class.
My suggestions for 4e:
Use only the Con score for HP (nothing for class).
No attack/defense bonuses for class.
Pick a single weapon proficiency (or none at all).
Maybe pick a single At-Will power, and nothing more!
Have characters pick a single Trained Skill.
Sound good?
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Doesn't mean you couldn't try to.Engilbrand said:
My idea would work to allow players already having a class:
Hit Points = Constitution Score
Healing Surges: Defender: 3+Con; Leader/Striker: 2+Con; Controller 1+Con
Powers: Characters have access to one at will power as a per encounter power, and a second at-will power as a per day power. Possibly at one per encounter power as a daily power, too. It also appears as if every class grants class features, and you might want to add one of them, too.
If you want to start even lower, everyone begins with the same Hit Points (Constitution Score) and Healing Surges (1+Con) and no powers or class features - so, effectively class-less.
Consider this level -2. Level -1 would gain one at will power as a per encounter power, and improve the healing surges. Level 0 would end as described above.
I will never get to playtest this, since I really don't enjoy this level of power, but maybe someone else will want to try this out...
UngeheuerLich
Legend
i tried. Worked quite fine
I used HP = con+2 and surges = 4+con mod
I used HP = con+2 and surges = 4+con mod
I have had an escape from jail set up. What I did? made them 3.5 characters in as many ways as possible. Hit pints were 3.5, abilities became as 3.5 (but were written in the 4th ed format) so magic missle was a daily but auto hit, etc.) We had to tweak a few things now and then (playtested it with a friend) but it worked fine. IT also REALLY shows off how much stronger 4th ed character are.
Want weak? use 3.5
Want weak? use 3.5
Graf
Explorer
Because we -don't- have the rules yet?Engilbrand said:
Because running one or two fights without everyone having a 3+ powers on different timers (so you can get used to attack rolls, the new tactical movement) is a nice intro?
Because, when they get their classes it shows, in story terms, exactly why they're important compared to other people?
Because it makes for a good story?
This is a good idea, but I want something mechanically simple and classless (no spellcasting, etc).Kitirat said:
They aren't weak wizards/fighters/whatever they're actually just farm hands and the-guy-who-watches-the-bridge.
You've basically figured out what I'm shooting for.Novem5er said:
Though I don't think I'll make them "earn" xp.
Yeah. This is basically what I was looking for.Novem5er said:
Thanks!
Cool. Any suggestions?UngeheuerLich said:
FireLance
Legend
I was also thinking that a "0-level" game would make a good introduction for new players, and allow them to slowly get used to their characters' abilities. I would split up "0-level" into the "Novice" and "Apprentice" levels, though.
At Novice level, the idea is to introduce the players to the simplest abilities of their characters and to the basics of gameplay. Novice-level characters have the following abilities:
At Novice level, the idea is to introduce the players to the simplest abilities of their characters and to the basics of gameplay. Novice-level characters have the following abilities:
Hit Points: Constitution+3 for defenders, Constitution+2 for leaders, strikers and controllers.
Healing surges: same as a 1st-level character, but can only be used between fights as Novice-level characters cannot catch a second wind (healing surges don't increase with levels, after all)
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: same as a 1st-level character (lack of money will be a bigger restriction on choice of weapons and armor for low-level characters, so further restricting proficiencies seems rather pointless)
Class Defence Bonus: same as a 1st-level character (it's a small and constant bonus, and helps to differentiate the characters)
Racial Abilities: All at-will and constant abilities*
Class Abilities: All at-will and constant class features, and one at-will power*
(* Except those related to action points and second wind, which will be introduced in the Apprentice level, along with encounter abilities and powers.)
Trained Skills: All free skills (e.g. Stealth and Thievery for a rogue) and one other.
Novice-level characters do not have action points and cannot catch a second wind.
Novice-level characters become Apprentice-level characters when they have earned one-quarter the XP that a 1st-level character needs to gain a level.
At Apprentice level, players are introduced to the more tactical aspects of gameplay, including action points, the second wind action, and encounter abilities. Apprentice-level characters gain the following abilities:Healing surges: same as a 1st-level character, but can only be used between fights as Novice-level characters cannot catch a second wind (healing surges don't increase with levels, after all)
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: same as a 1st-level character (lack of money will be a bigger restriction on choice of weapons and armor for low-level characters, so further restricting proficiencies seems rather pointless)
Class Defence Bonus: same as a 1st-level character (it's a small and constant bonus, and helps to differentiate the characters)
Racial Abilities: All at-will and constant abilities*
Class Abilities: All at-will and constant class features, and one at-will power*
(* Except those related to action points and second wind, which will be introduced in the Apprentice level, along with encounter abilities and powers.)
Trained Skills: All free skills (e.g. Stealth and Thievery for a rogue) and one other.
Novice-level characters do not have action points and cannot catch a second wind.
Novice-level characters become Apprentice-level characters when they have earned one-quarter the XP that a 1st-level character needs to gain a level.
Hit Points: +6 hp for defenders, +5 hp for leaders and strikers, and +4 hp for controllers.
Racial Abilities: Gain their remaining racial abilities.
Class Abilities: Gain their remaining class features, another at-will power, and one encounter power.
Trained Skills: Gain an additional trained skill.
Apprentice-level characters become 1st-level characters when they have earned one-half the XP that a 1st-level character needs to gain a level.
At 1st-level, the characters gain their remaining abilities, namely:Racial Abilities: Gain their remaining racial abilities.
Class Abilities: Gain their remaining class features, another at-will power, and one encounter power.
Trained Skills: Gain an additional trained skill.
Apprentice-level characters become 1st-level characters when they have earned one-half the XP that a 1st-level character needs to gain a level.
Hit Points: +6 hp for defenders, +5 hp for leaders and strikers, and +4 hp for controllers.
Class Abilities: Gain one daily power.
Trained Skills: Gain their remaining trained skills.
Feat: One feat.
Class Abilities: Gain one daily power.
Trained Skills: Gain their remaining trained skills.
Feat: One feat.
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