What's different about d20 Modern?

Heretic Apostate · Apr 8, 2003

Given that I can't afford to buy much role-playing stuff, what's different about d20 Modern, compared to base D&D3E? What whizbang stuff do they pack in there? Has anyone adapted it to a fantasy campaign? How good is the core rulebook for magic? Does it seem balanced?

Answers desperately sought and gratefully accepted.

Viktyr Gehrig · Apr 8, 2003

It's lower-powered, with big changes to the Massive Damage rule.

Subdual combat rules are lame, but can be easily replaced with D&D's subdual damage.

One cool change is that every character class gains some sort of special ability at every level, either a bonus Feat, a talent, or a class ability. This takes away a lot of "strategic multiclassing", though multiclassing is strongly encouraged. The base classes are very generic (Strong Hero, Fast Hero), but there are Advanced Classes that are more specific.

The core rulebook is decent for magic, though there are only two strong casting classes (Mage and Acolyte). They're part of optional campaign rules for Urban Arcana, the first WotC campaign setting for d20 Modern.

I'd say the game is very well-balanced as a whole, and I like it better than D&D-- though D&D has much more material. I think it would work well for a low-powered fantasy game. I'm planning on using the rules for a superhero game (with 4CTF) at some point, though it's on the back burner.

Psyckosama · Apr 8, 2003

Except for the classes and kick-ass profression rules, not enough to warrent the $40 price tag. If you want to run a good modern campaign I recomend you buy Spycraft instead and just get the classes out of the d20 Modern SRD.

jaerdaph · Apr 8, 2003

Some other differences that haven't been mentioned but deserve highlighting:

6 Basic classes - each one keyed to one of the six ability scores.

The Wealth system - an elegant system that lets you play the game without spending a lot of time keeping track of expenses and what your character possesses.

Many of the changes that will appear in 3.5 e D&D are already present in d20 Modern.

Personally, I think d20 Modern does capture the "cinematic" feel that it claims to emulate, for a variety of action/suspense/horror etc. genres.

takyris · Apr 8, 2003

Clearer rules. Balanced classes.

Not a heck of a lot to chime in with, but I'm mainly posting to put in an "In favor" vote. I liked it. I thought it was great. I even like the system that replaces Subdual damage, although that puts me in the minority.

-Tacky

Mistwell · Apr 8, 2003

takyris said:
Clearer rules. Balanced classes.

Not a heck of a lot to chime in with, but I'm mainly posting to put in an "In favor" vote. I liked it. I thought it was great. I even like the system that replaces Subdual damage, although that puts me in the minority.

-Tacky

Honestly I think it puts you in the vast majority. I think MOST people come to like the nonlethal damage system of d20 Modern, but you have a very vocal minority clinging to their belief system of subdual damage or houseruling the current system to meet their conception of such rules. But in the end the better system usually wins out, and in this case the nonlethal system in the d20 Modern rules is the far better system.

As for other differences between d20 Modern and D&D, you have vehicle rules. You have a tiered system for character focus that includes core classes, advanced classes (reachable at 4th level) and prestige classes. You have a system that allows for requisitioning equipment from an orgaization as an additional option to purchasing equipment through the wealth system. You have some really interesting racial rules soon to come out that has been hinted at with moreuas and franks in the Dungeon/Polyhedron magazine genetech issue. And more, most of which has been mentioned above.

It's a great system, and in my opinion far better than D&D (and I am a big fan of D&D).

Viktyr Gehrig · Apr 9, 2003

Mistwell said:
Honestly I think it puts you in the vast majority. I think MOST people come to like the nonlethal damage system of d20 Modern, but you have a very vocal minority clinging to their belief system of subdual damage or houseruling the current system to meet their conception of such rules. But in the end the better system usually wins out, and in this case the nonlethal system in the d20 Modern rules is the far better system.

Except that two people with average stats, without the Brawl feat, are completely incapable of knocking each other out or even doing any kind of damage, even if they fight for hours. Add the Brawl feat, and every twentieth punch has a chance of forcing a saving throw. Also, prolonged hand-to-hand combat does not show any kind of a progressive effect, like would be seen in a boxing match or a real fistfight-- the fight continues until one opponent scores a knockout punch, which could be the first punch or the thousandth, depending on how the dice lay.

The massive damage rules in d20 Modern are a big improvement. The subdual damage system is an ugly wart on the face of an otherwise beautiful game.

Saeviomagy · Apr 9, 2003

Korimyr the Rat said:
Except that two people with average stats, without the Brawl feat, are completely incapable of knocking each other out or even doing any kind of damage, even if they fight for hours. Add the Brawl feat, and every twentieth punch has a chance of forcing a saving throw. Also, prolonged hand-to-hand combat does not show any kind of a progressive effect, like would be seen in a boxing match or a real fistfight-- the fight continues until one opponent scores a knockout punch, which could be the first punch or the thousandth, depending on how the dice lay.

Except that they could simply decide not to attempt clean knockouts (which is what the system is supposed to represent), and go for simply bludgeoning the other guy down, taking a -4 penalty to hit and doing real damage.

OTOH D&D has this bizarre system where hitting someone with a bag full of lead, or your fist causes damage which is completely gone in 1 hour per point of damage, and where kicking someone once they're down has no chance of killing the guy.

takyris · Apr 9, 2003

Couldn't have said it better,
Saeviomagy -- no chance at all of permanent injury, no chance at all of death. It's a specialized knockout strike. Frankly, I love that they introduced that. It's a great way for my ninja infiltrator to quickly and cleanly knock out a fifth-level bad guy with a gentle but precise chop to the base of the skull.

-Tacky

Arani Korden · Apr 9, 2003

Korimyr the Rat said:
Except that two people with average stats, without the Brawl feat, are completely incapable of knocking each other out or even doing any kind of damage, even if they fight for hours.

A situation which is about as common in my games as high level fighters falling from orbit. So I don't really worry about it.

What's different about d20 Modern?

Heretic Apostate

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Viktyr Gehrig

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Psyckosama

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jaerdaph

#UkraineStrong

takyris

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Mistwell

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takyris

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