Need help with wording of a wish

Sarellion · Mar 26, 2005

Watch wishmaster, think one minute and say no thanks to wishes from strangers.

Crothian · Mar 26, 2005

just make the wish and see what happens. Sure it might turn out bad, but that at least gets things interesting. Have fun with the game and stop worrying about it so much.

Slife · Mar 26, 2005

"I wish that my eldrich blasts wouldn't harm good aligned entities who are non-hostile to me. This wish is to be made with no bad consequences for me, or my friends, directly or indirectly, including, but not limited to, emotional, mental, and health-related consequences, at any time whatsoever."

There. Plus, you can use it as a detect good. Just shoot someone you suspect is neutral or evil, and if they die they were. And it helps to deal with those pesky goblin baby ethical issues

.

And if the price is too high, say it's a bad consequence of the wish. Forcing him to fufill his contract by nulling the price.

Whimsical · Mar 26, 2005

Wish construction set

If the wish is coming from a hostile source (wish-twisting DMs,) then I would gift the wish to the local Big Bad Evil Guy as a "tribute" and observe how he uses the wish.

Or, you can wish that the wishgranter enjoy living a fulfilling good life. See what the DM does with that.

If you are willing to take the penalty (a.k.a. choosing to accept a interesting plot element for your character) and gamble making the wish work for you then try the following...

Don't wish that you had anything. "I wish that I now have..."

Define who or what you want based on your knowledge and perceptions: "...known to me as..."

Define when: "...instantly and permanently..."

Define what or where you want the effect: "...upon the item/person/location that I am now touching with my right hand..."

Set the entire wish upon your preferences: "...exactly as I intend to happen, without any consequenses that I don't want."

After you write down the wish:

Have high Spellcraft PCs and NPCs check the wording of the wish as a lawyer would check a contract.

Also check Knowledge(arcane), Knowledge(history), and Bardic knowledge for any known instances and consequences of wishes used in the past.

Have a god check if your wish will work with Commune.

Good luck.

WARNING: Certain "I dare you" DMs will rather break the rules then let you actually "win" a wish. But even though your character will probably still suffer somehing, It's fun to just do a "HA!" to such a DM and know that you have won anyhow.

ThirdWizard · Mar 26, 2005

Mark said:
Oh, it's older than that.

Yes but that's the most recent incarnation of wish that was supposed to be run as a punishment for players. It's still pervertable, of course, it even says so in the description. But, really, if you stay within the bounds of the spell, it is supposed to be safe to use. The old standby of "the 10,000 gp you wished for is from the hoard of a nearby dragon" isn't encouraged. It quite easily makes up to 25,000 gp.

Ah, now, meta-gaming. THAT'S so 2nd edition...

Yes, a 17th level wizard knowing the limitations of his own spell is so metagamey.

Notice that I said if the DM wants, Knowlege (Arcane) checks can be made. a 17th level wizard will probably have around a +25 to the check, so getting a 35 DC is a 50/50 chance.

I don't see this as different than asking for rules clarification from the DM on how he runs other aspects of his campaign.

A character getting someone else to cast the wish for them would be wise to discuss what they think a good wish would be.

The wording on the wish spell is pretty codified:

SRD said:
A wish can produce any one of the following effects.
• Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
• Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
• Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
• Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it’s of a prohibited school.
• Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.
• Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.
• Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.
• Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
• Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish. A wish can never restore the experience point loss from casting a spell or the level or Constitution loss from being raised from the dead.
• Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level.
• Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
• Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.

I don't see how there's any way that a wish can copy the effects of what is being discussed in this thread. It isn't an omnipotent spell, its only 9th level. Around the power of gate and wail of the banshee. Just a bit more powerful because of the xp component.

Whimsical said:
If the wish is coming from a hostile source (wish-twisting DMs,) then I would gift the wish to the local Big Bad Evil Guy as a "tribute" and observe how he uses the wish.

Or, you can wish that the wishgranter enjoy living a fulfilling good life. See what the DM does with that.

The problem is that the DM who does this enjoys screwing over the player. The wishes will be great for the NPCs, but even though the PC wasn't even mentioned, somehow it will come back to haunt them.

Brother MacLaren said:
In fact, because you know there's going to be a price and you know the wish will be twisted, basically what you have here is the DM saying not "Here, have a wish" but instead "I dare you." The wish-wording game is not one I would choose to play because the DM, if he so chooses, can always make you lose.

I agree, and I think its a shame. A bad DM can turn a fun 9th level spell into an ego contest. =/

Mark · Mar 27, 2005

ThirdWizard said:
Best way to do it is to talk with the DM about it. What does he think is too powerful for the magic of wish.

Mark said:
Ah, now, meta-gaming. THAT'S so 2nd edition...

ThirdWizard said:
Yes, a 17th level wizard knowing the limitations of his own spell is so metagamey.

Piffle! The spell description gives the player all of the info to which he is entitled. Trying to corner the DM into divulging the outcome of an action ahead of time, in order to remove all of the variables, is no better than thinking one can hit the save button before proceding. It's meta-gaming of the worst kind because it wastes everyone's time and attempts to take all of the surprises out of the game. Grow a pair, already, stop wheedling for every possible detail, and just make the damned wish. That's what I would tell you at MY table and if you wasted even more of my time, you can be damned sure that... Well, let's just see if it ever comes up, shall we?

ThirdWizard · Mar 27, 2005

Mark said:
Piffle! The spell description gives the player all of the info to which he is entitled. Trying to corner the DM into divulging the outcome of an action ahead of time, in order to remove all of the variables, is no better than thinking one can hit the save button before proceding. It's meta-gaming of the worst kind because it wastes everyone's time and attempts to take all of the surprises out of the game. Grow a pair, already, stop wheedling for every possible detail, and just make the damned wish. That's what I would tell you at MY table and if you wasted even more of my time, you can be damned sure that... Well, let's just see if it ever comes up, shall we?

NOT asking "Okay if I wish for this then what will happen." But, "Can a wish alter a spell I have forever?" My personal answer would be, "No, you cannot do that." And, I think that a player should have that information.

But, see, there are DMs out there who will, no matter what you wish for, make something horrible happen to your PC. This is a "mother may I" situation. If I take dragon as my favored enemy is it wasted? If I take an item creation feat will I have the downtime to use it? If I make a wish how powerful do you think the spell is? The answer could be anywhere from "Only what is listed" to "It can bend the Multiverse to its will." This is important!

I think a player has a right to know a DM's feeling on particular spells, especially when the spells are so subjective as a wish. There are many many subjectivities involved in a D&D game and I think it is imperitive that a DM and Player be on the same page and have the same expectatons on how the game will work. If a Player has been with a DM who allowed various wishes for years then goes to a new game, I believe that the DM should be upfront on how he or she approaches this, and many many other issues, in the game.

And it isn't Piffle, its Pfil!

Mark · Mar 27, 2005

ThirdWizard said:
NOT asking "Okay if I wish for this then what will happen." But, "Can a wish alter a spell I have forever?" My personal answer would be, "No, you cannot do that." And, I think that a player should have that information.

DM - "Read the spell description, again, if you have questions."

ThirdWizard said:
But, see, there are DMs out there who will, no matter what you wish for, make something horrible happen to your PC.

I wouldn't play in such a game. If a player doesn't trust his DM, he should find another game.

ThirdWizard said:
This is a "mother may I" situation. If I take dragon as my favored enemy is it wasted? If I take an item creation feat will I have the downtime to use it? If I make a wish how powerful do you think the spell is? The answer could be anywhere from "Only what is listed" to "It can bend the Multiverse to its will." This is important!

That's the difference between a game rule and a house rule. That has nothing to do with interpretation.

ThirdWizard said:
I think a player has a right to know a DM's feeling on particular spells, especially when the spells are so subjective as a wish. There are many many subjectivities involved in a D&D game and I think it is imperitive that a DM and Player be on the same page and have the same expectatons on how the game will work.

Some things are meant to be subjective. The DM is not meant to be a simple substitute for a computer. Not everything has to spelled out to the nth detail. It spoils the game.

ThirdWizard said:
If a Player has been with a DM who allowed various wishes for years then goes to a new game, I believe that the DM should be upfront on how he or she approaches this, and many many other issues, in the game.

The underlying current in your posts is that you don't feel players can trust DMs and therefore should suck any possible variables out of a game in advance to avoid ever having to worry if an exact action won't result in an exact result. Piffle!

ThirdWizard said:
And it isn't Piffle, its Pfil!

No, it's Piffle! (Since you need everything spelled out and defined so clearly...)

ThirdWizard · Mar 27, 2005

Mark said:
The underlying current in your posts is that you don't feel players can trust DMs and therefore should suck any possible variables out of a game in advance to avoid ever having to worry if an exact action won't result in an exact result.

You've seen this thread. It's said in jest, but if anything like that ever happened in a game I was playing in I'd be flabbergasted. I would never expect such a thing to actually happen.

The consensus seems to be that even though what he wanted was in line with the power of a wish, that its okay to screw over a player just to be funny. And this is from people on this board who I would expect to trust! You yourself condoned the behavior. I do not. It might be a funny "what if" scenario before we get back to the real game, but that is all.

It makes me wonder if, with wish, normally very honest and nice DMs suddenly become evil caniving DMs. Frankly, and the consensus seems to back me up on this.

And my position is nothing of the sort. My position is that the power of the wish and a general idea of how far the DM is willing to take it is important. Personally, if a wish is too powerful in my game, nothing happens. They have a general idea of where the cutoff is, but no specifics. I suppose if you want a wizard to waste 10k xp before knowing where that is, its your perrogative, but I would rather not.

Mark · Mar 27, 2005

ThirdWizard said:
You've seen this thread. It's said in jest, but if anything like that ever happened in a game I was playing in I'd be flabbergasted. I would never expect such a thing to actually happen.

The consensus seems to be that even though what he wanted was in line with the power of a wish, that its okay to screw over a player just to be funny. And this is from people on this board who I would expect to trust! You yourself condoned the behavior. I do not. It might be a funny "what if" scenario before we get back to the real game, but that is all.

It makes me wonder if, with wish, normally very honest and nice DMs suddenly become evil caniving DMs. Frankly, and the consensus seems to back me up on this.

And my position is nothing of the sort. My position is that the power of the wish and a general idea of how far the DM is willing to take it is important. Personally, if a wish is too powerful in my game, nothing happens. They have a general idea of where the cutoff is, but no specifics. I suppose if you want a wizard to waste 10k xp before knowing where that is, its your perrogative, but I would rather not.

If you need help getting your head out of there, perhaps I, and the rest of the folks who were so obviously joking in that thread, could grab ahold of your legs and pull them like you must be pulling mine...

Need help with wording of a wish

Sarellion

Explorer

Crothian

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Slife

First Post

Whimsical

Explorer

ThirdWizard

First Post

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

ThirdWizard

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Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

ThirdWizard

First Post

Mark

CreativeMountainGames.com

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