A DM's Dragon tactics (my players, please stay out!)

Dragons can focus on several different types of combat -
with decent spellcasting a dragon should have the practiced caster feat, and a bevy of defensive spells - mage armor, shield, mirror image, Although enlarge person isn't going to work. The wall of force - perhaps a spellcraft (to ID a spell cast) would let the dragon know it was coming - and an immedate dive would not be out of the question.
 

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Problem is that it is only the top of the range dragons that come with decent spellcasting included... your standard ones only have enough magic to round out their abilities a little in most cases.
 

Sagiro said:
Given that a dragon doesn't have the maneuverability to hover, could you (or anyone else) explain how this works, logistically? Unless a PC is foolish enough to end his/her turn within attack range of the dragon, I can't figure out how a flying dragon gets a full attack.

Maybe I misread the MM, but I thought the typical cone of an adult dragon was only 50'.

Alas, this dragon, being "adult," didn't have access to spells over 3rd level. (It did, with it's dying action, cast dispel magic on the rakshasa, who had been dimensional anchored, so that the rakshasa could escape via refuge.)


I want to challenge my party, not slaughter them! :)

-Sagiro

Sagiro,

As an adult, "bronze-template" dragon, it should have 8 feats (1 + 21 HD/3). Hover should certainly be one of them.

From the SRD:

HOVER [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Fly speed.

Benefit: When flying, the creature can halt its forward motion and hover in place as a move action. It can then fly in any direction, including straight down or straight up, at half speed, regardless of its maneuverability.

If a creature begins its turn hovering, it can hover in place for the turn and take a full-round action. A hovering creature cannot make wing attacks, but it can attack with all other limbs and appendages it could use in a full attack. The creature can instead use a breath weapon or cast a spell instead of making physical attacks, if it could normally do so.

If a creature of Large size or larger hovers within 20 feet of the ground in an area with lots of loose debris, the draft from its wings creates a hemispherical cloud with a radius of 60 feet. The winds so generated can snuff torches, small campfires, exposed lanterns, and other small, open flames of non-magical origin. Clear vision within the cloud is limited to 10 feet. Creatures have concealment at 15 to 20 feet (20% miss chance). At 25 feet or more, creatures have total concealment (50% miss chance, and opponents cannot use sight to locate the creature).

Those caught in the cloud must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 10 + 1/2 creature’s HD) to cast a spell.

Normal: Without this feat, a creature must keep moving while flying unless it has perfect maneuverability.


Hover + Blindsense is a big dragon's friend, especially against lots o' enemies slinging big damage spells. Once the negotiation went bad, it should have gone for an immediate dust up.

Also, the Fog Cloud special ability (3x per day) is also good for blocking LOS and buying manuever room. Snatch, Fly-by Attack and flying speed of 150' really calls for hit and run tactics. Fly-by Attack...Snatch...fly away...Hover...Full Attack...Breath Weapon...Full Attack...drop...come back for more. If you get stuck in a bad place, cast Expeditious Retreat, haul arse, reassess and come back with a diving attack to pick off separated party members.

~ OO
 

Well yes, you could have them breath anything you want.

But what happens if the dragon breaths his cone straight down from 50 feet? You have a 50 foot circle of devastation.

All my dragons have hover (I should have mentioned that, my bad) as their first feet.

Have you ever watched Reign of Fire? Or any movie with a dragon in it? Did any of those dragons have poor manueverability?

That being said, you do have to follow physics to some extent. However, I tend to make my dragons a bit more dexterous (thus manueverable) than the MM.

Remember and this is really important: MONSTERS IN THE MONSTER MANUAL ARE AT THEIR ABSOLUTELY BASE LEVEL...AS WEAK AS THEY CAN GET.

Which means you can boost them to whatever level you want. Your biggest problem with the encounter is it wasn't up to the EL of the party. With the standard CR and EL being set for 4 characters of a given level, you had more than twice! That significantly changes how an EL is calculated. You should have used a couple of adult dragons with 3 or 4 Raks or a dragon two or more age categories higher with a couple of Raks.

Below is a post I put into a CR thread. Read it and take it to heart:

Psions and Tarrasques and Balors, OH MY!

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There are multiple problems inherent in the system. One of the biggest is that too many people see the rules as absolutes, instead of guidelines. Pulling a creature out of the book by CR rating alone is not enough to prepare for an adventure as a DM. As Eric A. can attest, my encounters tend to be much more difficult than the CR would suggest. I'm a tough DM, and average about 1 PC death per play session; we'll not talk about friendly fire here. I'm also a generous DM and award XP appropriately. But a lucky strike or smart play from a PC can end almost any encounter quickly. Even when I build very difficult encounters, I always leave a way out, either to victory or to retreat. Whether the players find it, well, that's a different story.

This is how I personally do it:

1) KNOW YOUR PARTY! If you don't do this, the rest is pointless.

2) Pick a monster/creature/opponent because it fits the local, story, or scene, not because of it's CR rating. Any creature can be made weaker or stronger...enough to challenge any party.

3) Get to KNOW monsters and their abilities.
a) Some monsters have stupidly high CRs, because of one ability. What happens when you strip that ability, or change it to something less lethal? What's a Famine Spirit without its Vorpal Bite?
b) Some monsters have stupidly low CRs, because the DMG doesn't take into account its will to live (among other things). 20 orc warriors with 4 sergeants and one captain, armed with short bows, short spears and tower shields and fighting in turtles can give playes nightmares for weeks.

4) Get to know what abilities that your PCs have trouble with, and take advantage of it. In the same vein, throw some freebies at them to build their confidence.

5) It's important to understand that most players stumble on to monsters (and not the other way around). Most beasties will be prepared for adventurers. In fact, it's probably a favorite menu item! Oooh, roast wizard, rogue on a spit, boiled fighter, and cleric on the half shell, yummy! As the DM you should be playing the monsters as if they were your PCs (which in fact, they are).

6) Smart monsters retreat. In fact, the smarter the beastie, the more likely it will know it's outmatched, use its most lethal and/or favorite power to attempt to damage/kill a PC or two, and retreat to the hills. They may regroup, get reinforcements, buff themselves up, set up an ambush, etc. Very few intelligent creatures will fight to the death, unless they are backed into a corner, magically bound to do so, or protecting something (like a nest or young).

7) Monster use their magic items. Unless it's biologically impossible, less effective than it's natural weaponry, or the creature is not intelligent, make the players EARN their treasure. Nothing hurts so bad, is so valued, or brings bigger smiles, than pulling out the half used wand of fireballs that you pried from the dead Raksasha's hand...the one it used on you in its 20x20 bedroom (which it was immune to).

Remember, it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

DMing is an art, not a science. Don't try to turn it into one, or you'll suck all the fun out of the game. In fact, you'll probably feel like you're playing EverCrack.
 


Well, I don't know about the starter of this thread, but I just saved it to my favorite's...too many good pointers to waste...

On a related note, a player of mine just bought two dragons (including this monster), I almost feel sorry for them.
 

Sagiro said:
My general question is: faced with a scattered group of adventurers out of doors, how would a dragon best fight?

The answer to this, as it is in any high level game, is recon. Failing that, the second answer is projectile damage, or as an old Dragon Magazine called it, playing B-17 bomber. With landbound foes, dropping boulders is one of the best forms of attack that a dragon has. It keeps the dragon out of harms way (for the most part) and softens up a party royally.

Another thing to think about is that in order to fly, PC's have to use magic, and magics have limited durations. So, if all else fails, a dragon can fly away to fight another day.
 

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