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Bards - Likes and Dislikes?
- Thread starter TheLe
- Start date
Lord Ipplepop
First Post
In the last 2 campaigns my group has done, I have run bards.. actually, this one is a bard/Rogue. What I like best about the bards (well, two tings) is the ability to be everything (almost) at once, which gives them a higher survivability rate than most, and the fact that with a Bard, it is easier to develop a backstory, and to design the character around it.
Example: My current Bard is an actor who tends to "suppliment" his income when the audiences are light, or when he is in a large city. All of his spells, and his skills and feats are very easily designed around this premise, and he becomes more than just a collection of numbers and random abilities.
Example: My current Bard is an actor who tends to "suppliment" his income when the audiences are light, or when he is in a large city. All of his spells, and his skills and feats are very easily designed around this premise, and he becomes more than just a collection of numbers and random abilities.
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
I like the jack-of-all-trades nature. Being able to dabble in different things, and having a character whose play style can change to fit my mood is great. I like bardic knowledge, both because it can be kinda fun to roleplay stories and oddball lore, but also because it can be a useful way for a DM to slip in the occasional clue or hint without bending reality. I like that they get some abilities that are unique to the class. I like the two good saves, and have no problem with the BAB, Hit points, skill points, or skill lists.
There are some mechanical implementations in 3.5 that I don't like, though. They shouldn't be spontaneous casters -- if their magical knowledge is acquired through their travels and not inborn, it should be wizard-like in function. I am constantly annoyed that they are the only class that basically has to sacrifice a skill point every level to take advantage of a class feature. I wish the bardic music and spell casting abilities were more intertwined; as it is they are two seperate functions that don't complement each other well. I'd also like to see a couple bonus feats thrown their way, so they could beef up a little in one area, such as grabbing a couple of metamagic feats to boost spellcasting. As is, their limited feat and spell slots leads to a degree of same-ness that is the opposite of what the class should be.
There are some mechanical implementations in 3.5 that I don't like, though. They shouldn't be spontaneous casters -- if their magical knowledge is acquired through their travels and not inborn, it should be wizard-like in function. I am constantly annoyed that they are the only class that basically has to sacrifice a skill point every level to take advantage of a class feature. I wish the bardic music and spell casting abilities were more intertwined; as it is they are two seperate functions that don't complement each other well. I'd also like to see a couple bonus feats thrown their way, so they could beef up a little in one area, such as grabbing a couple of metamagic feats to boost spellcasting. As is, their limited feat and spell slots leads to a degree of same-ness that is the opposite of what the class should be.
pogre
Legend
I have never been crazy about the bard. The main reason is it is a role best filled after the adventure is over. A bard tells and sings of heroic deeds - they do not perform them. I have no real problems with the class as it is structured, but interestingly I have only had one played IMC in all my years of D&D. He was more of a joker-type than a true bard. His main singing consisted of dirty sea ditties and limericks.
The_Gneech
Explorer
I miss the old days of the super-bard who had a dozen levels of fighter, seventeen levels of wizard, forty of rogue, and could basically fly and shoot laser beams out of their eyes.
The modern bard seems a bit of a letdown after that.
Seriously tho, the current bard is a great addon for a party, even if they're not really optimum choices for any of the "core four." The bard is also a fun character for solo play with a bunch of NPC lackeys.
-The Gneech
EDIT: I should also mention that whenever we have a bard show up in our games, we've taken to using OotS's "Make, make, make that skillcheck..." paradigm for song improvisation. So handy!
The modern bard seems a bit of a letdown after that.
Seriously tho, the current bard is a great addon for a party, even if they're not really optimum choices for any of the "core four." The bard is also a fun character for solo play with a bunch of NPC lackeys.
-The Gneech
EDIT: I should also mention that whenever we have a bard show up in our games, we've taken to using OotS's "Make, make, make that skillcheck..." paradigm for song improvisation. So handy!
I am currently playing a bard. I like that they can fill in for (almost) anyone or anything. If a player can't make it to the session that day - the bard can fill in. They won't be as good at fighting as the fighter, at spellcasting as the wizard or at healing as the cleric but they can fill in in a pinch.
I aldo like playing the 'faceman' of the group (always have for some reason) and the bard makes a great faceman for the party.
I aldo like playing the 'faceman' of the group (always have for some reason) and the bard makes a great faceman for the party.
DethStryke
Explorer
I enjoy the concept of the Bard, but not the Bard in practice as written for 3.5.
I think the Bard is one of those classes that really depends on the ingenuity and quick thinking of the player. If you do not have those abilities in real life, then it's going to be a very hard road indeed. While this is arguably true for any class, it is exaggerated to the Nth degree for Bards.
Versatility, Multiple Songs and Bardic Lore; all are potentially great strengths. They rely, however, on a DM's willingness to work with them, provide opportunities and roll with out-of-the-blue changes in the landscape that a Natural 20 on Lore checks can bring to party knowledge. The social aspect tends to be very limited in many games, sometimes altogether absent, which hamstring the real strengths of the Bard IMO.
All in all, I find the Bard to be either extremely capable or near useless. There usually isn't the in-between found with most other classes.
I think the Bard is one of those classes that really depends on the ingenuity and quick thinking of the player. If you do not have those abilities in real life, then it's going to be a very hard road indeed. While this is arguably true for any class, it is exaggerated to the Nth degree for Bards.
Versatility, Multiple Songs and Bardic Lore; all are potentially great strengths. They rely, however, on a DM's willingness to work with them, provide opportunities and roll with out-of-the-blue changes in the landscape that a Natural 20 on Lore checks can bring to party knowledge. The social aspect tends to be very limited in many games, sometimes altogether absent, which hamstring the real strengths of the Bard IMO.
All in all, I find the Bard to be either extremely capable or near useless. There usually isn't the in-between found with most other classes.
Mercule
Adventurer
Rodrigo Istalindir said:
I've taken a slightly different tack on spontaneous casters -- mostly because I already used psionics to represent "innate magic". Spontaneous casters aren't born magicians. Instead, they are mages who have studied a small list of spells very thoroughly. In doing so, they have exchanged breadth for depth, in a manner. The chosen spells are pretty much seared into their minds. Mechanics are the same, explanation is different.
Snapdragyn
Explorer
I like bardic music, & the bardic music feats that let you use it for other things. I dislike spells, & would love to see a bard variant (full class, not PrC) that drops spells for (some combination of) more songs, more bardic music uses/level, limited sneak attack progression, or full BAB (or songs to provide the later two at cost of a bardic music use if more uses/level are provided).
I'd try to convince my DM to go with something like that if I had a better idea of what would be an equitable trade. How much is the bard spell list & casting progression worth in such a trade?
I'd try to convince my DM to go with something like that if I had a better idea of what would be an equitable trade. How much is the bard spell list & casting progression worth in such a trade?
Hmm...Bard. Tough one.
Like:
Skills
Casting in Armor
Bardic Music (To a point)
Strong Reflex/Will Saves.
Don't Like:
Bardic Music. (Basically, I like the mechanical aspects of it. It's just really hard to buy into the "Swing, Swing, Swing the Sword" song sometimes.)
Spell list--It's all yummy and flavorfull and stuff, but I'll be darned if you can make an effective spellcaster out of it most of the time.
Lack of true versatility--The Bard is called the jack of all trades, but he's really a dedicated support minion in play. He's not, for instance, a second-rate fighter. He's a really terrible fighter compared to almost any class. Nor does he have anything on a dedicated spellcaster.
In short, I think the basic design of the bard overvalued it's versatility, to the point that it only really shines for it's group buffs and social skills--making it a specialist class in play, rather than a generalist.
Edit: I agree that a more physically capable Bard with enhanced music abilities in place of spellcasting would be a much more interesting class.
Like:
Skills
Casting in Armor
Bardic Music (To a point)
Strong Reflex/Will Saves.
Don't Like:
Bardic Music. (Basically, I like the mechanical aspects of it. It's just really hard to buy into the "Swing, Swing, Swing the Sword" song sometimes.)
Spell list--It's all yummy and flavorfull and stuff, but I'll be darned if you can make an effective spellcaster out of it most of the time.
Lack of true versatility--The Bard is called the jack of all trades, but he's really a dedicated support minion in play. He's not, for instance, a second-rate fighter. He's a really terrible fighter compared to almost any class. Nor does he have anything on a dedicated spellcaster.
In short, I think the basic design of the bard overvalued it's versatility, to the point that it only really shines for it's group buffs and social skills--making it a specialist class in play, rather than a generalist.
Edit: I agree that a more physically capable Bard with enhanced music abilities in place of spellcasting would be a much more interesting class.
