Metamagic Rods--Overpriced?

Right, here's something a little more useful for the purpose of this discussion. I've gone through the Magic Item Compendium and pulled out the item levels for all the metamagic rods.

Lesser Substitution (2,700 gp, 7th)
Lesser Enlarge (3,000 gp, 7th)
Lesser Extend (3,000 gp, 7th)
Lesser Sculpting (3,000 gp, 7th)
Lesser Silent (3,000 gp, 7th)
Lesser Empower (9,000 gp, 12th)
Lesser Reach (9,000 12th)
Substitution (10,500 gp, 13th)
Enlarge (11,000 gp, 13th)
Extend (11,000 gp, 13th)
Sculpting (11,000 gp, 13th)
Silent (11,000 gp, 13th)
Lesser Chaining (14,000 gp, 14th)
Lesser Maximize (14,000 gp, 14th)
Greater Substitution (24,300 gp, 15th)
Greater Enlarge (24,500 gp, 15th)
Greater Extend (24,500 gp, 15th)
Greater Sculpting (24,500 gp, 15th)
Greater Silent (24,500 gp, 15th)
Empower (32,500 gp, 16th)
Reach (32,500 16th)
Lesser Quicken (35,000 gp, 16th)
Chaining (54,000 gp, 18th)
Maximize (54,000 gp, 18th)
Greater Empower (73,000 gp, 19th)
Greater Reach (73,000 19th)
Quicken (75,500 gp, 19th)
Greater Chaining (121,500 gp, 22nd)
Greater Maximize (121,500 gp, 22nd)
Greater Quicken (170,000 gp, 24th)

Going by the item levels, the lesser and normal metamagic rods generally do not allow you to enhance a spell beyond the highest level spell slot that a wizard or cleric of your level would be able to cast. The greater metamagic rods still do break this metacap, but not by much - Substitution, Enlarge, Extend, Sculpting and Silence give a one spell level advantage, and Empower and Reach give a two spell level advantage (mainly because 19th-level wizards and clerics do not gain access to 10th-level spell slots). Chaining, Maximize and Quicken maintain the one spell level advantage if the wizard or cleric takes Improved Spell Capacity with his 21st and 24th level feats.

Of course, many campaigns will not use the magic item level rules. Going by standard wealth levels, and assuming that no single magic item can be worth more than half the standard wealth level, you can get Lesser Empower as early as 7th level (a one spell level advantage), normal Maximize as early as 13th level (a two spell level advantage) and Greater Quicken by 17th level (a four spell level advantage).

Final verdict: lesser and normal metamagic rods are not broken if you use magic item levels, greater metamagic rods are on the powerful side (but most likely still not broken) even if you do use magic item levels, but if you allow a character to invest half his wealth into a single magic item, all bets are off.

Great post, Firelance! Though for the purposes of this thread, considering the rods to be broken at any cost is considered a more extreme version of "vastly underpriced" rather than a separate category.

As moretheil alluded, the purpose of this thread was to back up a claim I made in an MIC thread. I made a few pricing comparisons based on Metamagic Rods that a few others (specifically Mistwell--not because I am picking on him but because he was willing to admit his view on Metamagic Rods) protested, so I followed up by basically saying "You know, most people tend to think the Metamagic Rods are pretty well priced, and if anything, more tend to think them underpriced or even broken at any price than think them overpriced. Do you think the Metamagic Rods are overpriced, then?" Mistwell did think so, and this thread was born. I'm hopeful that the wording and choices were as unbiased as possible (or if anything, biased in favour of saying the rods are overpriced because the title asks if they are overpriced), and the results are exactly as I expected.

The 170,000 GP tag on Greater Quicken is particularly essential. I am convinced that it is priced fairly for the massive, game-altering power it grants. However, the designers of the MIC who created the "Belt of I Win" (I can't remember the actual name--I think Belt of Battle) don't seem to think so. For 12,000 GP, the Belt grants 3 charges that can be used with a Swift action. 1 charge grants a move action. 2 charges grant a standard action. 3 charges grant a full-round action. This belt is clearly superior to one of the three uses of the Metamagic Rod of Greater Quicken, but the cost is staggeringly lower.

Rystil Arden said:

The 170,000 GP tag on Greater Quicken is particularly essential. I am convinced that it is priced fairly for the massive, game-altering power it grants. However, the designers of the MIC who created the "Belt of I Win" (I can't remember the actual name--I think Belt of Battle) don't seem to think so. For 12,000 GP, the Belt grants 3 charges that can be used with a Swift action. 1 charge grants a move action. 2 charges grant a standard action. 3 charges grant a full-round action. This belt is clearly superior to one of the three uses of the Metamagic Rod of Greater Quicken, but the cost is staggeringly lower.

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Belt of Battle really needs an asterisk.

*Note, these extra actions cannot be used for spellcasting, to activate a spell-like ability, or to activate a supernatural ability.

Wolfwood2 said:

Belt of Battle really needs an asterisk.

*Note, these extra actions cannot be used for spellcasting, to activate a spell-like ability, or to activate a supernatural ability.

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Add in manoeuvres from Bo9S (some aren't supernatural) and we're getting somewhere. Of course, then the extra standard action can basically only be used for an attack, so it might as well be the Haste ability to get an extra attack. Even so, an extra full-attack (for the full 3 charges) is quite powerful for a meleer, as is 3/day extra move action in order to move and full attack.

Gerion of Mercadia said:

Using a metamagic feat on a spell makes casting a spell at least a full round action. To apply the quicken spell feat "spontaneously" doesn't work at all, as you have to take a full round action to cast the spell in the first place...

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That's only for sorcerers (or rather, all spontaneous casters) without Arcane Preparation (Note: This is under the above assumption, that the rods work (pretty much) just like the feats for the different caster types), though. They can't use the Quicken Spell feat either as per the feat description, so it would be consistent here (it's another topic whether this is fair ).

Bye
Thanee

Rystil Arden said:

Add in manoeuvres from Bo9S (some aren't supernatural) and we're getting somewhere. Of course, then the extra standard action can basically only be used for an attack, so it might as well be the Haste ability to get an extra attack. Even so, an extra full-attack (for the full 3 charges) is quite powerful for a meleer, as is 3/day extra move action in order to move and full attack.

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Or an extra standard action to drink a potion and full attack.

Bye
Thanee

Thanee said:

Or an extra standard action to drink a potion and full attack.

Bye
Thanee

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Well a potion/scroll/wand is more-or-less equivalent to casting a spell. If spells are out, magic items that cast them would be too, I'd imagine.

Belt of Broken

Let's do this the easy way

1 charge: Move action.
2 charges: Attack standard action.
3 charges: Full attack.

Rystil Arden said:

I said it in the first post and asked people to read it at the top of the poll

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Was that there all along? If so, my apologies as I completely missed it.

In that case, plese count one fewer 'about right' and one more 'broken at any price'.



glass.

glass said:

Was that there all along? If so, my apologies as I completely missed it.

In that case, plese count one fewer 'about right' and one more 'broken at any price'.



glass.

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Yep, that was always there