Star Wars Saga Edition [SECR] Preview #8 is Up

Ranger REG said:
Shouldn't Will Defense come from firewall hardware and security software installed onto the computer? Or do we "assume" the computer comes with one pre-installed?

This bit actually made me giggle with glee at the design decision. The INT basically establishes the power of the computer, while its STARTING ATTITUDE to a great degree is defined by how secure you as GM would define the system.

That's right -- Use Computer plays like Persuasion/Diplomacy. And yes, it sounds insane. I ADMIT it sounds insane. But when I read how they did it, I fell in love. I mean, really, thank you, boys, for having the stones to try something new. It works, and gives you a better sense of "hacking" than the single rolls or any complex skill roll mechanic you might graft onto traditional d20.

Again, this is a system designed for ease and speed of play, not adding layers of skill DC modifiers on one element at a time. I cannot say how many times while reading the book I actually chuckled out loud at how they solved a longstanding problem, or brought a fun little bit of gameplay to bog-standard skill checks. There are going to be a lot of little "leaks" over the next two weeks, and you 'll hear something out of context and just bang your head against the desk. But when you see the gameplay mechanic -- boom boom boom. Fun and crunchy at the same time.

BTW I don't really know the rules for answering questions about this thing without violating copyright. So if a mod or more experienced guy wants to toss some flags, feel free.
 

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jonrog1 said:
That's right -- Use Computer plays like Persuasion/Diplomacy. And yes, it sounds insane. I ADMIT it sounds insane.

Honestly, to me, it makes perfect sense. (and I agree it's stupendously brilliant) I wrangle compters/networks for a living; add into that a predilection to anthropomorphize things, and I'm often talking to the computer like an errant child or long-lost love....I mean, er...

Then slap onto that the fact that some PCs *are* computers (droids); since they have sentience, they'd tend to treat it as a conversation as well.

jonrog1 said:
BTW I don't really know the rules for answering questions about this thing without violating copyright. So if a mod or more experienced guy wants to toss some flags, feel free.

From the threads with other WotC books, I don't think a general rules mechanics discussion is terribly out of line (I recall seeing everything I needed for Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel in a thread, as an example).

I'd want to also state a request for the Grapple mechanics changes, as well as any impact that may have on whatever "Trip" mechanic may exist. :)
 
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Right, sorry for the delay.

99% of players in classic MSRD rules, when they "grapple" somebody, all they want to do is grab them. Stop them from moving, interfere with them in some way. Then the player wades through all the bloody options in the definition ... (the paralysing effect of too many choice, btw, has been well-documented) Only we grappling PC freaks really take the maneuver to town with our improved Grapple feats, etc. Same with Trip. When's the last time you saw somebody use Trip who wasn't decked out with the fun feats around it?

So they stripped it down. "Grab" is a standard action. -5 on the unarmed attack roll vs. Reflex DC, up to one size larger and one opponent at a time. It deals no damage. The -5, I assume because you're not just trying to hit a guy, but hit him somewhere -- arm, shoulder, waist -- where you can gain purchase. I am cool with that.

A "grabbed" opponent is at -2 for attacks (except w/natural and light melee weapons) , and can't move. You can take a standard action to break a grab automatically. That clears one grabber per character level. (So a heroic soldier can shake off the mooks trying to pin him down)

So when you grab somebody, they have a choice -- fight you, or stand there and try to keep shooting while you wrestle with them. (NOTE: I'd probably houserule that you can move the two of you around 1 square with an opposed STR check. I don't think you have to have somebody pinned to move them.)

A "Grapple" on the other hand, is essentially an improved Grab. You can only do it if you have the Pin or Trip feat or both. It's an unarmed attack (without the -5 penalty, so there's your Imp Grapple feat from the old rules, built in) that does no damage.

As soon as that attack's successful, make an opposed Grapple Check, with Grapple being:

d20+ BAB + (STR/DEX, pick higher) + special size modifier

If you win the Grapple check the result is dependent on your PC's chain of feats. That is, if you have Pin, the character's automatically pinned (no actions, lose Dex). Grapple every round to renew the pin. If you have Pin and Crush, you can choose to do unarmed damage at the same time as the Pin resolves. Trip feat: win the Grapple, your opponent's prone. Throw feat: the character's prone over there and takes unarmed damage. Essentially you're building a combat effect through a feat chain.

Or, when you win the Grapple check, you do damage with an unarmed strikes or light weapon.

Unless I'm misreading, if you're grappled and you don't have those feats, all you can do is make Grapple checks to try to get away. If you're subject to a Pin, I don't think you can use the Grapple check for unarmed/light weapon damage, since the feat explicitly says "may take no actions." And seeing as you're only Grappled by somebody who has the Pin feat -- you know what you can do and can't do. Automatically.

Now some people will freak, feeling options have been taken away from the character. I respect that, but disagree. I think close-up fighting is specialized enough that simulating it with some training is legitimate. I LIKE the idea that there's a difference between Schmuck A grabbing you, wrestling with you while you whack at him with your gun butt, and being able to put an opponent in a submission hold. As soon as you see a specialized grappling character, you know you are in for a world of hurt and had best stay out of arm's reach. At the same time, a specialized Grappling PC has a big advantage over untrained opponents, and won't take many feats before he's tossing Stormtroopers around like ragdolls or crushing their throats. Bull (Bantha, whatever) Rush has been similarly transformed into a feat -- not linked to Grapple, but same theory of design.

If you disagree, you can of course simply use the rules as stated in the feats Bantha Rush, Pin and Trip as combat choices, and leave Crush and Throw as feats. But this is one of those things I read and went "huh"?, and then on reflection realized I liked in the balance. You Grapple with clear intent now. And regardless, I love linking Trip to the Grapple roll. Tying previously separate maneuvers with separate rules to one game mechanic always pleases me.
 

jonrog1 said:
Right, sorry for the delay.

Hey, no worries here. I'm just fishing for more ways to rationalize buying the book.(for the purposes of yoinking a lot into our increasingly growing home-system).

And if I've never stated such before, since I have you here, your story hours (espc. "Drunk Southern...") are some of the most entertaining bits to ever grace my monitors.

And back to the topic at hand:

HA! That is nice! I completely agree; Grab with the addition of a STR check to force someone around covers basically all my "grappling" needs. I'd already moved Trip into Grapple (apparently I'm doing something right!), but seperating out a plain Grab....that's lovely.

Does the grabber take the same sort of penalties as the grabee? What can they do? (I'm specifically imagining here the old "villian grabs an innocent bystander, holds a gun to the head" scene)

I'd almost want a true Grappler to be able to take a bonus on "grappling" someone who has him in a Grab....(that "innocent bystander" is actually Jet Li, whoops)

That's really, really nice, thank you.
 

hong said:
Is there a "Speaks Like James Earl Jones" feat? No Star Wars game is complete without a Speaks Like James Earl Jones feat.

Well, in the playtests it was a "Speaks like David Prowse" feat, but the playtesters didn't like it too much...
 

jonrog1 said:
BTW I don't really know the rules for answering questions about this thing without violating copyright. So if a mod or more experienced guy wants to toss some flags, feel free.

Hi Jonrog1

There is a long tradition on ENworld of anyone who manages to get an early copy of a production RPG answering lots of questions about things in it... at this point it is just building excitement for those who are intending to purchase it, really. It isn't as if you are going to be typing out whole pages or anything.

So please feel free to continue to answer questions or mention things that you think are innovative

Cheers
 

Someone on the WotC boards has posted some of the following information:

Skill List:

Acrobatics
Climb
Deception
Endurance
Gather Information
Initiative
Jump
Knowlege
Mechanics
Perception
Persuasion
Pilot
Ride
Stealth
Survival
Swim
Treat Injury
Use computer
Use Force

Prestige Classes

ace pilot,
bounty hunter,
crime lord,
elite trooper,
force adept,
force disciple,
gunslinger,
jedi knight,
jedi master,
officer,
sith apprentice,
sith lord.

Vehicles list

At-At
At-St
Landspeeder
speeder bike
AAT-1 (assault tank)
Incom-T47 airspeeder
LAAT/i gunship
x-wing
y-wing
tie fighter
tie interceptor
Eta-2 Actis Interceptor
Vultre droid starfighter
droid tri fighter
YT-13000
corellian Corvette
star destroyer

Couple of talent trees

Jedi Guardian
-Acrobatic Recovery
-Battle Meditation
-Elusive Target
-Force Intuition
-Resilience

Armor Spec
-Armored Defense
-Improved Armor Defense
-Juggernaut (armor doesn't reduce speed)
-Second skin

Lots more in this thread on the Wizards board
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=854066

Cheers
 

I've got my own heap of questions.

What are the requirements for Trip and Throw? I'm specifically wondering about ability score requirements (if any).

Is Intimidate under Persuasion along with Diplomacy?

Does Diplomacy still work like it does in DnD, or did it get changed?
 

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