Wizards: Bard to no longer suck

I think Music as a power source sounds like a good bet for a later PHB.

It would be pretty cool if the "leader" role could be assigned to different classes by a feat chain or prestige class or some kind of mechanic, so if the leader was a warrior-type, he could bolster party members' attack power; a rogue-type would boost the party's ambushing ability and provide some dirty combat team tactics; a cleric-type would confer various regenerative effects and lasting power; and an arcane type supernatural powers, or perhaps allow the party to team up to create stronger magical effects. Which might come at the price of some of the leader's individual power (though he could always re-boost himself). That would be pretty cool.

Don't really know about singing in a fight, though.

Imp said:

Don't really know about singing in a fight, though.

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Neither of my last two bard attempts sang. Both had perform : oratory. One used it for inspirational speeches and battlefield control, the other was a priestly type who shouted blessings and promised damnation as well as ruin to their enemies.

Not that there's anything wrong with the idea of music as an inspiration to fighter types. My mental images of stirring American Revolution scenes seem to have had a piper and drummer permentantly linked to troops thanks to some artist out there, and even the orcs in LotR got war drums. Come to think of it, my image of modern infantry troops seems to have a lot of singing during training. (or at least rhythmic and slightly medodious shouting that rhymes.) And while the real life examples may not give boosts during combat, neither do most real life military chaplains cast bless.

If your bard actually sings a pleasant ditty (possibly with the words "Plus one, plus ONE, my friends have plus oooone....") while gently strumming a lute, the mental incogruity of this giving combat boosts is entirely in your hands. (When I did have a bard who sang, she was presumed to be singing "Do You Hear the People Sing" from Les Mis unless otherwise noted. I did not have trouble linking that image to a supernatural mechanical bonus to combat.)

I'd like to add that the four roles that have been mentioned are just the combat roles. Every 4th.ed. class will be effective in combat.
Outside of combat encounters the roles can be completely different and unrelated to the combat roles. But I suppose they'll strive for every class being able to contribute in a meaningful way outside of combat, as well.

I hear That WoTC has signed a deal with RedOctane Games and Activision to make Guitar hero 4 compatible with DnD Insider. Now players will be able to provide thier party with inspirational music in "real time", allowing for a much faster play experience.............

For everyone who thinks that a Bard's role is not be be adapt at ass-kickery, I present my favorite bard, Keith Taylor's Felimid Mac Fal. Felimid was suave in most any social situation, his magic mojo was weakish, but it was there... and his ass-kickery was more than sufficient. Granted, Felimid was a Main Character, but he was a really good one IMO. (Actually one of my favorite PrCs that I built for my campaign is a 'translation' of him).
A bard can be a social master AND kick his share of arse, and still be a bard. All bards should not have to be Ethan.

Kerrick said:

Because a bard's "role" isn't combat - it's support. They shine in RP situations, as everyone's already noted, and in combat, they're designed to support others with their songs. A multiclass bard (bard/fighter, bard/ranger, bard/barbarian) can be really badass, though, properly done. Greatswords aren't too conducive to making a good bard, though.

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Aww Kerrick, you know better than that! Give me 10 or 15 minutes and I'll design a righteous weapon/instrument for you. *chuckles* I'm sure I could come up with some way to convert a greatsword into a lute...

Who's Ethan?

Jhaelen said:

I'd like to add that the four roles that have been mentioned are just the combat roles. Every 4th.ed. class will be effective in combat.

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That would imply that there IS something out of combat. From what I've been hearing, it's just going to be one combat after another, only pausng long enough to drink some water and eat some bread.

Oh sure, maybe once a week or so the party will go to the auction house, but do you really need a bard for that?

Eric Tolle said:

That would imply that there IS something out of combat. From what I've been hearing, it's just going to be one combat after another, only pausing long enough to drink some water and eat some bread.

Oh sure, maybe once a week or so the party will go to the auction house, but do you really need a bard for that?

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Eric, I'm going to use you as an example. Sorry for that, but I needed to say something about your post anyways.

Folks, the above post is a good example of what some people refer to as "threadcrapping." It's when someone posts an exaggeratedly contrary opinion that seems custom designed to start an argument. We first saw it in Greyhawk and FR threads, where people who hated those campaign settings would post rude comments just to rile up fans. We didn't like it there, either.

In the 4e forum, members who threadcrap aren't usually doing it to try and troll or be deliberate jerks; more likely, it happens because they're frustrated and worried about bad things happening to a game they love. You'll see this behavior from both pro- and anti-4e crowds, but it's been coming more often from people worried about 4th edition since they feel they have more to lose. That doesn't make it okay.

The thing is, it's easy to express a contrary opinion without threadcrapping. Compare the quoted sentences above with something like "I'm worried you won't need a bard because there's not going to be many non-combat activities, since from what I've heard the new game focuses more on fighting." Yeah, it's still changing the subject from bards to the "staying power" of 4e characters, but at least it's not using hyperbole to start an argument.

If you're hanging out in the 4e forum because you're pissed off about the new game and want to start fights, please go elsewhere. If you don't like the idea of 4e but still want to discuss it, you're welcome here -- just obey the normal rules for politeness and decorum. That goes for fans of 4e, too. No one who is nervous about the game wants an evangelist telling them that it'll fix their problems, walk their dog and shine their shoes.

If people keep proper respect for one another, we'll be just fine. EN World works so well because 99% of people self-moderate to an astonishing degree. And if you see people slipping, well, let us know by clicking the tiny "report a post" button at the bottom left of every post. We'll take a look at it.

If you have questions or comments about this post, please email me or post them in the Meta forum. i'd rather not hijack this thread any further.

gothmaugCC said:

I hear That WoTC has signed a deal with RedOctane Games and Activision to make Guitar hero 4 compatible with DnD Insider. Now players will be able to provide thier party with inspirational music in "real time", allowing for a much faster play experience.............

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If the bard is half so cool as Guitar Hero, we will all be very lucky, indeed.



"Who said 'play Freebird?' There's a rogue working his way through the crowd to backstab you RIGHT NOW!"