Need thoughts on Red Mage Class

Hello everyone,

One of my players put together this Red Mage class info. Could you please comment about whether it is balanced or not?

After looking it over a bit, it just seems like a fighter, with a bit less hitpoints, who can cast spells, but doesn't suffer the drawbacks of being a spell caster (limited spell choice, limited armor, etc.). The feats seem to be a bit much too. Does anyone else have any comments?

Doesn't look too bad, though I'd probably cut the spellcasting back to something more like the Bard (6th level spells max, only 0 level spells at first level, etc), given the maximum BAB and bonus feats.
Possibly also cut the reflex save bonus, but I don't see that as a game breaker.

MightyThor said:

Hello everyone,

One of my players put together this Red Mage class info. Could you please comment about whether it is balanced or not?

After looking it over a bit, it just seems like a fighter, with a bit less hitpoints, who can cast spells, but doesn't suffer the drawbacks of being a spell caster (limited spell choice, limited armor, etc.). The feats seem to be a bit much too. Does anyone else have any comments?

Click to expand...

An equal level fighter / wizard would have the following:
=> d7 effective HD (d10 & d4 averaged)
=> Average BAB
=> 1/2 good Fort, 1/2 good will, all poor reflex
=> 2 + int skill points in a small set of skills between 2--almost completely nonoverlapping--lists
=> simple and martial weapons + all armors
=> 1 bonus feat every 4 levels + scribe scroll and 2 other bonus feats
=> 5th level spells
=> 20 free spells for their spellbook

This class gains:
=> d6 HD (below the F/W)
=> Good BAB (much better)
=> poor fort, average reflex, good will (slightly better but not by much)
=> 4 + int skill points on a single, larger list (better)
=> simple+martial plus light armor (worse)
=> 6 bonus feats all of which coinside with normal character feats (a possible benefit)
=> reduced spell failure (better)
=> 9th level spells (much better)
=> no free spells (somewhat worse...depending on how strict the DM is about scribing costs)

I would say that this class is almost balanced (the 9th level spells ruin the whole) but perhaps a bit uninspired.

The red mage (from Final Fantasy I assume) never struck me as being anything other than that game's answer to the bard. They were certainly not masters of weaponry on any scale even close to the fighter.

If one of my players brought me this class, the fighter bonus feats, along with the 9 levels of spells, would make me think that they wanted to find a way around multiclassing penalties. This class does that plus throws in some fringe benefits.

My revision:
=> d6 HD
=> Average BAB
=> good will (maybe one other at good...or perhaps all three at average if that is an option)
=> 4 + int skill points on a single, larger list
=> simple+martial plus light armor
=> rather than combat bonus feats, perhaps have something similar to the ranger and monk combat paths. A red mage might be an archer, or a fencer, or a knife thrower. This way they gain some bonus feats (perhaps some spell feats/abilities to further tie together the martial/magical sides of the class) but they aren't as open and versatile as the fighter when it comes to defining their style.
=> reduced spell failure (better)
=> use the bard spells known and per day but create a new spell list. The mages of FF were not preparers they were spontaneous casters.

Just my thoughts.

DC

Full spell progression (with kind of a strange pattern) plus full BAB and nice bonus feats to boot is over the top. The strength of the red mage is versatility - depending on whether you want more of a mage or a fighter with spells, I'd either drop the casting to bardic progression or drop the BAB to 3/4. In either case, slow the bonus feats to more like 1/5 levels like wizard, and give it a custom spell list with a bunch of staples from both arcane and divine but none of the really esoteric stuff from either.

--Impeesa--

I think we scared him off.

DC

Nah, not scared, just busy with school/work.

Thanks for the comments all. I'm leaning toward not allowing this class, or maybe doing a few modifications to the bard. I think it has a possibility of unbalancing the game (by the way, there are 9 people in the game, it's hard enough to balance as it is).

With a game that big, that last thing you need is an even slightly overpowered jack-of-all-trades class.

I think the reason that ranger and bard always seem "underpowered" is because their abilities crossover so many other classes that the designers keeped them limited a bit to keep them from outshining.

With 9 characters, there is too much overlap already.

DC