Deity Specfic Priest Classes: Pelor

As many on these boards know, I feel the Cleric is both an overpowered class, and that it is archtypaly confused, and does a very poor job of actually representing priests of different religions.

Truthfully, I dont even feel that Priest is an especially valid archtype for a base class, and that most deities would have "priests" of apropriate classes serving them...fighter, barbarians and the like for war gods, paladins for gods of justice and the like, mages for magic gods etc.

However, I have attempted to present various ways to do a Priest class or classes in a way that is more balanced, and that also actually has priests of different religions being meaningfully different and not having access to spells and abilities that in some cases contradict their gods nature etc.

The two best ways of doing this, to me, would be to create a generic plug-and-play priest class, or to create individual priest classes for each religion. Some while ago, I wrote up a version of the first idea and posted it. Now I am trying the second option, begining with Pelor. Tell me what you think.


Priest of Pelor:

Alignment: Any good

Hit Die: d6 (cant really decide between d8 and d6 thats one of the problem areas)

BAB: As Cleric

Saves: Good Will, Medium Fort, Poor Ref (medium progression as per several class in Arcana Unearthed, bonus maxes out at +9 at 20th level)

Skills: As Cleric

Armor and Weapons: Light and Medium armor, shields, simple weapons.

Spellcasting: As Cleric, but without domains. Or alternately, as Cleric Spontaneous Divine Spellcasting presented in Unearthed Arcana. Spell List below.

Class Features:

1st level: Spontaneous Cure Spells, as Cleric.

Turn Undead, as Cleric.

3rd level: Greater Turning (as Sun Domain) once a day. 2/day at 9th level, 3/day at 15th level.

5th level: Healing Master: at 5th level whenever the Priest casts a Cure spell he may ad a +1 bonus to the damage healed, per die of healing granted. This bonus increases by +1 at 10th, 15th, and 20th level.

7th level: Spontaneous Reparation: At 7th level, the Priest may spontaneous cast Remove Blindess/Deafness or Remove Disease by losing a prepared spell of 3rd level or higher. At 11th level, the Priest may cast Neutralize Poison by losing a prepared spell of 4th level or higher.


This is a pretty rough draft and still needs work, so tell me what you think. Since Pelor is basically the human racial deity, I will probably do other racial deities next, begining with Corellon.

Forgot to post the spell list


0th level:
Create Water
Cure Minor Wounds
Detect Magic
Detect Poison
Guidance
Light
Mending
Purify Food and Drink
Read Magic
Resistance
Virtue

1st level:
Bless
Bless Water
Comprehend Languages
Cure Light Wounds
Detect Chaos/Evil/Law
Detect Undead
Divine Favor
Endure Elements
Enlarge Person
Hide from Undead
Magic Stone
Magic Weapon
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Law
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Shield of Faith
Summon Monster 1

2nd level:
Aid
Align Weapon
Augury
Bear’s Endurance
Bull’s Strength
Calm Emotions
Consecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Delay Poison
Gentle Repose
Heat Metal
Make Whole
Owl’s Wisdom
Remove Paralysis
Resist Energy
Restoration, Lesser
Shield Other
Silence
Spiritual Weapon
Status
Summon Monster 2
Zone of Truth

3rd level:
Bestow Curse
Continual Flame
Create Food and Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Daylight
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Hold Person
Invisibility Purge
Locate Object
Magic Circle Again Chaos/Evil/Law
Magic Vestment
Obscure Object
Prayer
Protection from Energy
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Summon Monster 3

4th level:
Cure Critical Wounds
Death Ward
Dimensional Anchor
Discern Lies
Dismissal
Divination
Freedom of Movement
Fire Shield
Holy Smite
Imbue with Spell Ability
Magic Weapon, Greater
Neutralize Poison
Planar Ally, Lesser
Restoration
Sending
Spell Immunity
Summon Monster 4
Tongues

5th level:
Atonement
Break Enchantment
Commune
Cure Light Wounds, Mass
Dispel Chaos/Evil/Law
Disrupting Weapon
Flame Strike
Hallow
Mark of Justice
Plane Shift
Raise Dead
Righteous Might
Scrying
Spell Resistance
Summon Monster 5
Symbol of Pain
Symbol of Sleep
True Seeing

6th level:
Animate Objects
Banishment
Bear’s Endurance, Mass
Blade Barrier
Bull’s Strength, Mass
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass
Dispel Magic, Greater
Forbiddance
Geas/Quest
Glyph of Warding, Greater
Heal
Hero’s Feast
Owl’s Wisdom, Mass
Planar Ally
Summon Monster 6
Symbol of Fear
Symbol of Persuasion
Undeath to Death
Word of Recall


7th level:
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass
Holy Word
Pelor’s Grasping Hand
Refuge
Regenerate
Repulsion
Restoration, Greater
Resurrection
Scrying, Greater
Summon Monster 7
Sunbeam
Symbol of Stunning
Symbol of Weakness

8th level:
Antimagic Field
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
Dimensional Lock
Discern Location
Holy Aura
Pelor’s Clenched Fist
Planar Ally, Greater
Spell Immunity, Greater
Summon Monster 8
Sunburst
Symbol of Death
Symbol of Insanity



9th level:
Astral Projection
Gate
Heal, Mass
Pelor’s Crushing Hand
Prismatic Sphere
Summon Monster 9
True Resurrection

I, for one, like the idea, and I like this specific Priest of Pelor class that you've created. This would make a fine house rule and might invest more flavor into fantasy religion, which would be good. I happen to believe that the chief problem with the Cleric class as stands now is not balance, but flavor. Good job.

That said, I wouldn't ever use this. The advantage to a generic Cleric class is that it's easy to learn. When a player wants to play a cleric, I know pretty much what that character will be capable of. A separate class for every religion is just too much to balance and track. I am happier with the solution of using prestige classes to differentiate the clergy of different religions.

I have to agree with Arbiter on this one. It's an interesting idea, and might fit flavor better than a generic cleric class does, but it becomes a nightmare for even standard D&D, which would have 10+ cleric classes, and even worse for setting like Forgotten Realms...

That said, since you didn't do anything in this class that couldn't be done in under 10 levels... why not, make clerics multiclass into a prestige class at level X for their deity? It goes a little further than Arbiter says - instead of allowing people access to PrC, you MAKE them take them at a certain level if they wish to advance further in the faith. You could have a 5-10 generic cleric, and then at the cut-off they must jump ship into a specific deity PrC or another PrC. It would eliminate the generic cleric feel, but also give some source-delinated control for the purpose of figuring PC strength versus EL. Since the PrC in most WotC and other books have seen a good deal of play-testing in and outside of the company, you know what you're up against in terms of power. Or, if you feel so inclined, you can make your own PrC and test them for such a purpose.

believe that the chief problem with the Cleric class as stands now is not balance, but flavor. Good job.

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I completely disagree. the Cleric is the strongest class by a long ways, and capable of assuming most other characters roles. A party of 3 clerics and a rogue would be considerably better off than the iconic party of cleric, wizard, fighter, rogue.

That said, I wouldn't ever use this. The advantage to a generic Cleric class is that it's easy to learn. When a player wants to play a cleric, I know pretty much what that character will be capable of. A separate class for every religion is just too much to balance and track.

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I dont understand. A classes capabilities are all spelled out plainly. If a character takes any class, you know what they are capable of. I dont see how this is any different.

Now, as an overall solution to the Cleric problem, I can see where a priest class for each religion would be problematic just because of the time and energy it would take to create each of them. Legistically, the "create a single generic plug and play priest" option is really the only remotely viable one for most campaigns...and I did that a while back by creating domains that are basically class-feature packets, and a "priest" class thats more or less a blank slate with virtually everything about it determined by domains.

Since so many seem to think that having a "priest" class is some how neccesary, but the current Cleric class is just so absurd on so many levels, I'm just trying to show how much better even an amaeuter like myself can do at filling those shoes.

That said, since you didn't do anything in this class that couldn't be done in under 10 levels... why not, make clerics multiclass into a prestige class at level X for their deity? It goes a little further than Arbiter says - instead of allowing people access to PrC, you MAKE them take them at a certain level if they wish to advance further in the faith. You could have a 5-10 generic cleric, and then at the cut-off they must jump ship into a specific deity PrC or another PrC. It would eliminate the generic cleric feel, but also give some source-delinated control for the purpose of figuring PC strength versus EL. Since the PrC in most WotC and other books have seen a good deal of play-testing in and outside of the company, you know what you're up against in terms of power. Or, if you feel so inclined, you can make your own PrC and test them for such a purpose.

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First, just as a point of interest and reference, in the last game I ran (which was odd because I dont like to DM), I eliminated the Cleric, along with the (in my opnion) moronic "arcane/divine" schism in magic entirely...so this isnt really an issue from that standpoint.

That being said, theres a number of reasons why the idea you put forth doesnt appeal to me, both thematically and mechanically.

Mechanically, 10 levels of cleric are already overpowered. They've already gained access to many problematic spells, and the already have equal spellcasting ability to a wizard along with vastly superior physical traits. Also on a more thematic note, the Cleric will probably already have access to many spells that their deity, logically, would never go near (such as a cleric of pelor having inflict and darkness spells).

Thematically, first if I want to be a priest of pelor, I want to be a priest of pelor, from the begining, not from level 10 onwards. The idea of a faith-mandtory prestige class just sort of rubs me the wrong way, especially for many faiths.


As I said in my last post, I understand that this aproach is impractical for many campaigns. I'm basically just trying to show those that feel that the Cleric is a neccesity and/or that its perfect ok, that the same concept can be done, and done better.

personally, I prefer the version I made up awhile ago It allows for any number of clergy to be made up for nearly any god and rapidly.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112679

It is a whole lot simpler and takes away some of the big teeth of the cleric class while giving them a bunch of other options.

I would use both the normal cleric and this guy in my own games though, they have difference uses. Still, this one could replace the cleric if needed.

personally, I prefer the version I made up awhile ago It allows for any number of clergy to be made up for nearly any god and rapidly.

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As I mentioned, I did one of those too, and it is an easier and more effective option overall. I'm just trying to demonstrate the large number of ways in which the (rather flawed) concept of a "priest" core class can be done, that are better than the cleric.

This is an example of how making a specfic priest class for many religions isnt all that hard. And many could (and really should) be filled by other classes anyway. Tempus, the war god of the realms for instance, should really just have fighters, barbarians, rangers and the like as his "priests"

I would use both the normal cleric and this guy in my own games though, they have difference uses. Still, this one could replace the cleric if needed

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I feel the Druid could replace the cleric, as it is, really. I dont think healing is as big a deal as many think it is. A lot of it is campaign dependent. Mechanically the easiest way to replace the cleric entirely would be to just give the druid the same cure spell progression. Heck, replace the spontaneous summoning with spontaneous healing and it'd be even better. Thematically druids, linked to life and nature, make better sense as uber-healers than a generic "priest". Now a priest of a healing god, maybe..


For the game I ran, I created the Mystic, a primary spellcaster primarily focused on defense, healing, and divination (like they keep claiming the cleric is), and without melee ability.

Took a look at your priest, Scion, and while it would work wonderfully as an NPC, it isnt anything I'd see a PC ever taking. And you mentioned you basically use it as the temple priest, and the cleric as the adventuring priest.

My point is doing away with the cleric, entirely, and creating something that satifisfies those that think their should be a seperate "priest" class, for both PCS and NPCs, rather than just having apropriate classes fill what is to me a mostly RP role.