Two Arcane Warrior classes for review

Hi all I'm new to these boards but looking over the great work everyone does here I figured that you folks could really help me shape up a pair of homebrew classes I was trying to tweak.

The first one is called (tenatively) the Arcane Armsman. It is based loosly on bard and monk but I was mostly trying to create a class that could service as a 20 level bladesinger (for all you elves out there). I'm worried that it may be a touch overpowered so this is the one I need the most help with.

ARCANE ARMSMAN


The Arcane Armsman is a martial spellcasting tradition originating with the elves of Dracovar but was quickly adapted by the nations of Kazerin and Lectorun once the secrets of the style leaked out. Arcane Armsmen tap into the raw power of magical force for all of their combat abilities, offensive and defensive. This Strange amalgamation of sword and spell is called by many names. The elves call them Bladesingers, the humans call them Arcane Armsmen, and the draas call their arcane warriors Steel Mystics. No matter what you call them there is no denying that they make strong allies and tough opponents.

Abilities: Charisma is the arcane armsman’s most important statistic as it governs many of the arcane armsman’s special combat abilities, spellcasting and bonus Armor Class. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are as important to arcane armsmen as to any other warrior and should not be overlooked.

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The arcane armsman's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex)

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the arcane armsman.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane armsman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. The arcane armsman is not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with an arcane armsman’s arcane gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells: An arcane armsman cast arcane spells, which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer /wizard list. He cast any spells he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or cleric must.
To learn to cast a spell, an arcane armsman must have a charisma score equal to at least 10+ the spell’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane armsman’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the arcane armsman’s Charisma modifier. The arcane armsman follows all of the spell casting rules of a sorcerer except that the arcane armsman may only learn spells of up to 6th level.

Bonus Feats: The arcane armsman gains bonus feats at 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels. These bonus feats are derived from the fighter bonus feat list (provided the armsman qualifies for them).

Arcane Armor (Su): While fighting unarmored and not carrying a shield the arcane armsman is protected by mystical energies granting him an AC bonus equal to his Charisma modifier. This is a supernatural ability.

Weapon Bond (Su): During the course of his training the arcane armsman feels a supernatural called to a particular style of melee weapon (a single weapon that he is proficient with; examples: dagger, short sword, great-axe). This kind of weapon becomes a conduit of arcane power for the armsman granting him strange and terrible combat prowess with it as he progresses down the road of the arcane armsman.

• Weapon Bond I: At 2nd level the arcane armsman chooses his bonded weapon and gain the ability to make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round.

• Weapon Bond II: At 7th level the arcane armsman’s bond with his chosen weapon grows stronger granting him the ability to channel some of his arcane energy into melee attacks. He gains the ability to use the Arcane Strike feat but only for his bonded weapon

• Weapon Bond III: At 14th level the arcane armsman’s extra attack loses the –2 penalty, as well as all other attacks made in the same round. In addition the arcane armsman gains the ability to use a quickened true strike spell once per day as a spell like ability but only while wielding his bonded weapon.

• Weapon Bond IV: At 19th level the arcane armsman’s can unlock the greatest secrets of martial and mystical might with his bonded weapon as mage, warrior, and weapon become one. Once per day the arcane armsman may add his Charisma modifier as an insight bonus to both attacks and damage and gain an additional attack per round at his highest base attack bonus. This lasts a number of rounds equal to the arcane armsman’s Charisma modifier. This is a supernatural ability.

Unshakeable Concentration (Ex): At 3rd level the arcane armsman gains complete focus while in combat situations and may take 10 on Concentration checks to cast defensively.

Fast Movement (Su): At 4th level the arcane armsman learns to channel some of his magical energies into increasing his speed. While unarmored the arcane armsman adds +10 feet to his base speed. This bonus to speed increases by 10 feet and every eight levels after (+20 at 12th level, and +30 at 20th level)

Arcane Skill (Su): At 6th level the arcane armsman gains the ability to use his magical potential to help him overcome physical and mental difficulties. Once per day the arcane armsman may add his Charisma modifier to a single skill check, (the player must announce that they are using this ability before the die is rolled). The armsman gains additional uses of this power as he advances in level (2/day at 12th level, and 3/day at 18th level)

Channel Spell: At 9th level the arcane armsman can channel any spell he can cast into his melee weapon. Using this ability requires a move action, and the arcane armsman uses up the spell slot just as if he had cast the spell. The channeled spell affect the next target the arcane armsman successfully attacks with the weapon (saving throws and spell resistance still apply). Even if the spell normally effects an area or is a ray, it effects only the target. The spell is discharged from the weapon which can then hold another spell. An arcane armsman can channel his spells only into his bonded weapon and only one at a time. Spells channeled into a weapon are lost if not used in 8 hours.



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The second one is the slightly less powerfull Arcane knightfor those who like using their brains and their brawn. I'm pretty happy with this one all around


Arcane Knight


Arcane Knights are the exemplars of a particular school of magic, devoting their considerable intellectual and martial skills to protecting their chosen school with all their power. They tend to follow many of the stereotypes of specialist mages in their attitudes and habits but generally have more aggressive personalities. They enthusiastically defend the reputation of their orders and their chosen school of magic many times hiring themselves out as bodyguards to specialist mages of their own specialized focus.

Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are as important to arcane knights as to any other warrior and Intelligence governs the arcane knight’s spellcasting and skills. The path of the arcane knight is both physically and mentally demanding

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The arcane knight's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken separately) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str)
Bonus skill based on chosen school:
Abjuration: Diplomacy (Cha)
Conjuration: Bluff (Cha)
Divination: Sense Motive (Wis)
Enchantment: Perform (Cha)
Evocation: Intimidate (Cha)
Illusion: Disguise (Cha)
Necromancy: Heal (Wis)
Transmutation: Survival (Wis)

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane knight is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. The arcane knight is proficient with all armors but not with shields. An arcane knight can cast any of their arcane knight spells while wearing light armor without risk of arcane spell failure.

Summon Familiar: At 4th level an arcane knight may summon a familiar just like a wizard or sorcerer

Bonus Feats: An arcane knight may choose bonus feats from the fighter list of bonus feats provided the arcane knight qualifies for the feat. An arcane knight gets a new bonus feat at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.

Spells: An arcane knight cast arcane spells, which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer /wizard list. He cast any spells in his spell book by preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard must.
To learn to cast a spell, an arcane knight must have a Intelligence score equal to at least 10+ the spell’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane knight’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the arcane knight’s Charisma modifier. The arcane knight follows all of the spell casting rules of a wizard except that the arcane knight may only learn spells of up to 5th level.

Specialized Focus: All arcane knights focus on one of the 8 schools of magic gaining a special affinity for their chosen school. At first level the arcane knight chooses a school of magic to be his focus school. The arcane knight gains a +2 bonus on all saves against that school of magic and the spell focus feat for the chosen school.
The arcane Knight then chooses any three schools of magic to become prohibited schools (with the exception of the divination school). This functions just like the prohibited schools chosen by a specialist wizard with the standard penalties normally associated with specialization.


Thanks in advance to everyone who deams to assist

Out of the two here the arcane knight seems the best as a PC class. Just make the bonus feats like this (so not to step on the wizards bonus feat pattern to much).

Just give a bonus fighter feat at 10th and 20th level. That just feals better for that one class.

Hmm, I'm not an expert on balancing classes, but if you were to compare the arcane armsman to, say, a paladin, the paladin has a somewhat better BAB progression and hit points, but the arcane armsman has IMO better class features than the paladin, bonus feats, more skills, and WAY better spellcasting abilities.

I like the flavor of the class, though. A couple of suggestions to tone it down: if you're capping spells at 6th-level, have the class follow the spells per day and spells known of the bard class instead of sorceror. Having them select spells from a more limited list would reduce their power as well. Finally, I think these guys should have 2 skill points/levels instead of 4.

Sorry; duplicate post

The Arcane knight is pretty damn powerful. I probably wouldn't allow it in a campaign. It might turn out to be balanced, but you'd have to playtest it a lot.

I'm pretty sure the armsman is broken. Its a little hard to say because of all those weird abilities, and the bazillion different things you can do with wizard magic. But it looks broken to me.

-Mei

Arcane armsman

Well, I have read the arcane armsman, and I think you should just read through Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, and use the mage blade from that book, or at the very least use that as inspiration for a class that combines magic and fighting. This is the best combination I have seen, and it is not too powerful.

Hi all.
Here is a slightly less powerful arcane armsman with the bonus feats removed. Let me know what you think.

ARCANE ARMSMAN


The Arcane Armsman is a martial spellcasting tradition originating with the elves of Dracovar but was quickly adapted by the nations of Kazerin and Lectorun once the secrets of the style leaked out. Arcane Armsmen tap into the raw power of magical force for all of their combat abilities, offensive and defensive. This Strange amalgamation of sword and spell is called by many names. The elves call them Bladesingers, the humans call them Arcane Armsmen, and the draas call their arcane warriors Steel Mystics. No matter what you call them there is no denying that they make strong allies and tough opponents.

Abilities: Charisma is the arcane armsman’s most important statistic as it governs many of the arcane armsman’s special combat abilities, spellcasting and bonus Armor Class. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are as important to arcane armsmen as to any other warrior and should not be overlooked.

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The arcane armsman's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex)

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the arcane armsman.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane armsman is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. The arcane armsman is not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with an arcane armsman’s arcane gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells: An arcane armsman cast arcane spells, which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer /wizard list. He cast any spells he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or cleric must.
To learn to cast a spell, an arcane armsman must have a charisma score equal to at least 10+ the spell’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an arcane armsman’s spell is 10 + the spell’s level + the arcane armsman’s Charisma modifier. The arcane armsman follows all of the spell casting rules of a sorcerer except that the arcane armsman may only learn spells of up to 6th level.

Arcane Armor (Su): While fighting unarmored and not carrying a shield the arcane armsman is protected by mystical energies granting him an AC bonus equal to his Charisma modifier. This is a supernatural ability.

Weapon Bond (Su): During the course of his training the arcane armsman feels a supernatural called to a particular style of melee weapon (a single weapon that he is proficient with; examples: dagger, short sword, great-axe). This kind of weapon becomes a conduit of arcane power for the armsman granting him strange and terrible combat prowess with it as he progresses down the road of the arcane armsman.

• Weapon Bond I: At 2nd level the arcane armsman chooses his bonded weapon and gain the ability to make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round.

• Weapon Bond II: At 7th level the arcane armsman’s bond with his chosen weapon grows stronger granting him the ability to channel some of his arcane energy into melee attacks. He gains the ability to use the Arcane Strike feat but only for his bonded weapon

• Weapon Bond III: At 14th level the arcane armsman’s extra attack loses the –2 penalty, as well as all other attacks made in the same round. In addition the arcane armsman gains the ability to use a quickened true strike spell once per day as a spell like ability but only while wielding his bonded weapon.

• Weapon Bond IV: At 19th level the arcane armsman’s can unlock the greatest secrets of martial and mystical might with his bonded weapon as mage, warrior, and weapon become one. Once per day the arcane armsman may add his Charisma modifier as an insight bonus to both attacks and damage and gain an additional attack per round at his highest base attack bonus. This lasts a number of rounds equal to the arcane armsman’s Charisma modifier. This is a supernatural ability.

Unshakeable Concentration (Ex): At 3rd level the arcane armsman gains complete focus while in combat situations and may take 10 on Concentration checks to cast defensively.

Fast Movement (Su): At 5th level the arcane armsman learns to channel some of his magical energies into increasing his speed. While unarmored the arcane armsman adds +10 feet to his base speed. This bonus to speed increases by 10 feet and every five levels after (+20 at 10th level, +30 at 15th level, and +40 at 20th level)

Arcane Skill (Su): At 6th level the arcane armsman gains the ability to use his magical potential to help him overcome physical and mental difficulties. Once per day the arcane armsman may add his Charisma modifier to a single skill check, (the player must announce that they are using this ability before the die is rolled). The armsman gains additional uses of this power as he advances in level (2/day at 12th level, and 3/day at 18th level)

Channel Spell: At 9th level the arcane armsman can channel any spell he can cast into his melee weapon. Using this ability requires a move action, and the arcane armsman uses up the spell slot just as if he had cast the spell. The channeled spell affect the next target the arcane armsman successfully attacks with the weapon (saving throws and spell resistance still apply). Even if the spell normally effects an area or is a ray, it effects only the target. The spell is discharged from the weapon which can then hold another spell. An arcane armsman can channel his spells only into his bonded weapon and only one at a time. Spells channeled into a weapon are lost if not used in 8 hours.

The Arcane Armsman's access to combat spells, their Channel Spell ability, and their Weapon Bond ability make them much more powerful than a Bard. Their other class features would just make them equivalent to a Bard only more martially-focused than skill/song-focused. So, as it stands, the Arcane Armsman should lose about half of its class abilities, or half the power of them at any rate. I'd recommend removing Channel Spell and Fast Movement, while slightly reducing the power of the Weapon Bond abilities. Their fewer spells known and spells per day compared to a Bard makes their spellcasting basically similar in power to that of a Bard, though possibly a bit superior still.

Now, regardless of whether or not you heed that advice, I have to point out the following flaws and missing details in your class description:
1. Arcane Armor does not mention what type of armor bonus it grants. It should definately belong to some specific type, such as Armor, Shield, Deflection, or whatever.
2. "supernatural called" in the Weapon Bond description should say "supernatural calling".
3. Weapon Bond I should specify if it only applies during a full-attack action, or not. I suggest that it should require a full-attack action.
4. Weapon Bond III's phrase "the arcane armsman’s extra attack loses the –2 penalty, as well as all other attacks made in the same round." does not make sense; what does it mean by 'as well as all other attacks made in the same round'?. I'd suggest not leaving the True Strike benefit Quickened.
5. Weapon Bond IV should probably be weakened to only functioning for 1 round when used, making it sort of an multiple-attack Smite sort of deal.
6. Arcane Skill does not specify what type of bonus it grants, though I suppose in this case it could be an unnamed bonus, though named bonuses are preferable.
7. Channel Spell is too powerful and inadequately worded. You should mention in the ability's own text that it's number of uses per day is limited by level, as per the class' progression table. I would suggest requiring that the spell's normal casting time be used for placing it in the weapon, or possibly just making it a standard action to imbue.

law said:

Out of the two here the arcane knight seems the best as a PC class. Just make the bonus feats like this (so not to step on the wizards bonus feat pattern to much).

Just give a bonus fighter feat at 10th and 20th level. That just feals better for that one class.

Click to expand...

I disagree... I think this class let us remember the multiclass Fighter/Wizard characters from Second Edition, and let us upgrade them from 2E to 3E or 3.5E qith ease. That's was I was looking for, and this class is the best approach to it.

Taking in consideration 5 arcane level spells are not stronger at 20th level as 9 arcane levels could be at 20th Wizard levels... then wizardry in this class are not stronger as it seems...

Both classes can take Feat equivalencies in 2E, and character taken best saving trows at that time...

I suggest few changes to this class:

Two good saving throws, fortitude and will, reflex is the bad saving throw, it reflects the wizard saving trow and the fighter saving throw. 2E characters taken the best saving trow from their classes. That's closer but a little bit better than having 10th/10th Wizard/Fighter Levels.

But BAB is not as good in a character with both classes, then I suggest change the BAB to intermediate, like cleric BAB. Equals than having 10th/10th Wizard/Fighter levels.

Both original classes have good amount of feats, I think adding a feat at second level could make a better approach to the Fighter side of the character. Best amount of feats than a wizard but not good as a fighter, and can't take Fighter exclusive Feats. That's significally less than having 10th/10th Wizard/Fighter levels. Just having 5 feats at 20th Arcane Knight level instead of 8 Feats a 10th/10th Wizard/Fighter level. But off course You can cast using Light Armour... (Maybe I'll add casting in Medium Armour at 12th or 17th level without arcane spell failure, just to balance the three feats lack, but considering decreasing power of familiar).

Hit dice 1d8... a little bit better than having 1d4/2+1d10/2 like 2E, but off course you can get 1 in the dice roll.

Spells known... A little better than having 10/10 Wizard/Fighter Levels. But I'll add a 0 for 6th level spells at 20th Arcane Knight level, then you only can cast 6th level Arcane Spells depending in your Intelligence bonus (off course if you have such intelligence... why are you chosing this class?). This adjustment just reflects the posibility to increase the class levels beyond Epic Levels, then a 35th or 40th Arcane Knight can cast 9th arcane level spells.

The familiar was a good idea, but that familiar is as stronger as a wizard familiar could be... maybe increasing the level of the Special Familiar Habilities (Alertness, speak with master, and so on) availability. If this penalty isn't taken you lost the ability to cast in mediom armour proposed at 12th (or 17th) level exchanging it to a normal familiar progression. That reflects the tendency of your style, Combat-oriented or Magic-oriented.

I don't think this class is strongly powerfull, consider a full Wizard could overcome the power of the Arcane Knight with ease, and a true Fighter have a wider amount of Feats, Fighter is still able to fight using heavy armour, and Arcane Knight still provokes atack of opportunities when casting spells, yes, Arcane Knight have advantages, as a familiar, but... how can you get involved in melee combat and taking care of your familiar at the same time?

Off course, you can consider this suggested Arcane Knight as a variant of the proposed one, geting a more Feat-n'-Magic-oriented Knight lacking of physical combat precision.

Take in consideration, an Arcane Knight class demands good scores in Strength and Intelligence and no bad scores on Dexterity and Constitution. That's difficult to accomplish.

Ok, just a quick glance... Arkhandus has made a number of good points already.

For the Arcane Armsman, If you want to keep the Fast Movement, it should be an enhancement bonus, due to its magical nature, yes? It also provides less conflicts with other speed enhancing effects. Why do they get this, though?