Does unarmed strike qualify for the Improved Natural Attack feat?

shilsen

Adventurer

• Mar 6, 2005

• #1

Just what the title asks. Does the monk's unarmed strike ability let it qualify for the Improved Natural Attack feat (MM, pg. 304)? I'd say no, since the unarmed strike is not actually a natural weapon but simply counts as one for the purposes of spells and effects that enhance or improve natural weapons.

Opinions?

 

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saucercrab

Explorer

• Mar 6, 2005

• #2

I'd agree with you. My reasoning is based on opinion & what I think the intent of the feat is. I think it's meant for creatures with natural attacks, along the line of claws, bites, etc.

If it did apply to an unarmed strike, I think it would only apply to the base die (for a human, 1d3), & not to any class-augmented feature (like a monk's unarmed strike).

Again, this is my opinion. Unfortunately, the wording of the feat is a bit vague & hard to pin down, such that it always leads to long threads.

 

Darkness

Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]

• Mar 6, 2005

• #3

This is a bit of a contested topic, BTW.

 

S

Starglim

Explorer

• Mar 6, 2005

• #4

I don't think humans have a natural attack form (if they did, it would be listed as an attack form in their Monster Manual entry) but if it does qualify, the feat would have its stated effect:

SRD said:

Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms. The damage for this natural weapon increases by one step, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category

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So the monk would do damage as if he was Large.

Also, Improved Natural Attack is listed in the Monster Feats, not the General Feats, so arguably it is not intended to be available to a PC race regardless of its prerequisites.

 

Last edited: Mar 6, 2005

Lord Pendragon

First Post

• Mar 6, 2005

• #5

Darkness said:

This is a bit of a contested topic, BTW.

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Indeed.

I rule that Improved Natural Attack does not apply to an unarmed strike. The unarmed strike is not a natural weapon, it's an attack form that uses hands, head-butts, kicks, etc.

Humans do not have a natural weapon, and human monks cannot use Improved Natural Attack to improved their monk damage die, which is a product of skill, rather than physical equipment, IMO. Nor could a minotaur monk use Improved Natural Attack to improve his monk damage die. He could improve his Gore or bite attacks, but not his monk damage die.

 

J

JacktheRabbit

Explorer

• Mar 6, 2005

• #6

I would rule that any race that must take Improved Unarmed Strike to avoid Attacks of Opportunity does not have natural weapons and thus does not qualify for this feat.

 

Trainz

Explorer

• Mar 6, 2005

• #7

CustServ said that, yes, the monk does qualify for it. Some on this board would cynically say that nothing coming from CustServ is worth anything at all, but consider that even coupled with a monk's belt, it doesn't unbalance a monk character, it only brings it a bit closer to a valuable melee combatant.

And, frankly, I want my players to have fun when they play a monk, not feel like they're useless.

 

S

Starglim

Explorer

• Mar 6, 2005

• #8

It might work as a high-level feat by specifying that a 10th- or 16th-level monk's ki strike ability makes her unarmed attacks equivalent to natural weapons. Adding 3.5 or 4.5 points of damage at a minimum of 12th or 18th level would hardly be unbalancing.

 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten

• Mar 6, 2005

• #9

On the flip-side of the coin, can a creature with a natural attack qualify for feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq?

For example, can a 10th-level Fighter vampire, who attacks with slams as natural weapons and meets all the other requirements, take the Stunning Fist feat?

 

S

Starglim

Explorer

• Mar 6, 2005

• #10

Alzrius said:

On the flip-side of the coin, can a creature with a natural attack qualify for feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq?

For example, can a 10th-level Fighter vampire, who attacks with slams as natural weapons and meets all the other requirements, take the Stunning Fist feat?

Click to expand...

It's not even close to equivalent. I might allow it to the same vampire with Improved Natural Attack though.